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Old 10-15-2009, 10:25 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,457,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist Maybe.
Then again I believe that only I can be responsible for my actions.
And not my superior, or God.
Because of this I can never use the excuse the German people had after losing WII; they did not know. The majority of the German population had no idea (nor did they have the desire to find out) what happened to the people in the Nazi death camps.
Well then without authority, as you said man becomes his own authority so what gives you the right to deem something right, wrong or evil? My authority is jus different from yours. The Nazis didn't do evil because we can't know what evil is since that is now a relative term, so the Nazis did something "different" to the Jews
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:28 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,410,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
"Be perfect as your father is perfect"....

Remember when we are told by Jesus to become this?
Was he kidding?
Was this said to be some sort of joke, a type of unreachable goal?

No!
It's something we have to become...and do become in Him.

However there are some ways to understand the term "Perfect" that make it something out of reach.
I think the context of that quote tells us how to be perfect. Jesus has just said we are not only to love our friends, we are to love our enemies. That is how we are to be perfect.

We are being made in the image of God, which is love. God is love. When we are perfect, we will be love too.

That's the message that matters. Nice story though about the baby. Peace out.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:29 AM
 
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Does anyone here actually read or post over at the CARM forums? It can get pretty harsh over there, especially in the "Arminian & Calvinism" group.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,529,077 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
Quote:
My authority is jus different from yours. The Nazis didn't do evil because we can't know what evil is since that is now a relative term, so the Nazis did something "different" to the Jews
You consider evil a relative term?
What about treating others like you yourself want to be treated?
Do you truly believe that you need God to base human morality on this (golden) rule?

FYI the Nazis, who happen to be Christian, believed that they were doing the right thing.
Hitler did not randomly pick the German Jews as scapegoats, but because they were the ultimate (rich) outsiders (and the scapegoats of old).
The Nazis in WWII acted exactly like the Christians of the Middle Ages to whom it was perfectly normal to burn heathens (read: witches, sorcerers and other 'spawn of the devil') on a funeral pyre.
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:51 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,457,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist You consider evil a relative term?
What about treating others like you yourself want to be treated?
Do you truly believe that you need God to base human morality on this (golden) rule?
Yes without an authority morality becomes relative for instance in this country murdering unborn babies is legal but murdering homosexuals based on their sexual orientation is immoral yet in the middle east its the opposite. Who is right, who is moral?

Quote:
FYI the Nazis, who happen to be Christian, believed that they were doing the right thing.
Hitler did not randomly pick the German Jews as scapegoats, but because they were the ultimate (rich) outsiders (and the scapegoats of old).
The Nazis in WWII acted exactly like the Christians of the Middle Ages to whom it was perfectly normal to burn heathens (read: witches, sorcerers and other 'spawn of the devil') on a funeral pyre.
Nazism was not Christian in fact its the opposite, they were atheists, applying the principles of evolution to their ideology, "natural selection" the strong survive and the weak either die off or are killed off. They believed they were the master race and from them humanity would be perfect as they purged the world of "imperfection" such as myself.

Just what part of the bible did you read that? I believe it said, first shall become last and the last shall become first, the meek shall inherit the earth
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Old 10-15-2009, 10:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I think the context of that quote tells us how to be perfect. Jesus has just said we are not only to love our friends, we are to love our enemies.
Well you do understand that Im not actually talking about the number or fingers and toes right?
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,529,077 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
Quote:
Yes without an authority morality becomes relative for instance in this country murdering unborn babies is legal but murdering homosexuals based on their sexual orientation is immoral yet in the middle east its the opposite. Who is right, who is moral?
My point is that humanity (even atheist humanists) has always viewed itself as the gods of Earth.
When push comes to shove Western man has always believed himself to be far superior to the other animals in the animal kingdom.
FYI many people suffered in the Middle Ages not because there was no morality, but because Christianity viewed itself as the epitome of God's creation. Heck, there was even a point in time where they believed that they knew everything there was to know.
You don't even need a deity to invent morality, pragmatism is enough.

Quote:
They believed they were the master race and from them humanity would be perfect as they purged the world of "imperfection" such as myself.
Is that any different from believing that the Jews (and thus Christianity by default) are God's chosen people?
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,240,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
So you say but the bible says different. Read 1 John if you don't believe me.



What's wrong with that? that is why Jesus died for and by us receiving and surrendering to Christ grants you the promise God gave us-it is the Holy Spirit who dwells in us gives us that assurance of salvation. Not only do we believe it we relish it. Now there are two sides to every coin when a Christian is not doing what they are supposed to do, not growing then that assurance of salvation is fleeting, we lose that assurance and for a Christian it is like a personal "hell" but that doesn't mean they are not saved just lost their assurance of salvation



Inquistition WAS NOT about true Christianity. Brief history. For a while Muslims, Jews and Christians live relatively peaceful till the Muslims tried to take over and introduce Sharii Law in Spain, Spain got word of it and that the Jews were helping the Muslims, Jews were pretending to be Christians and placing themselves in positions to allow this invasion to take place thus the inquisition began where they had to weed out the Jews masquerading as Christians charging them with treason and executing them.

I believe 5,000 Jews were put to death but it hardly was a genocide because it was over a span of 300 years the inquisition took place. It was wrong but it was not a Christian issue moreso a nationalistic issue. People were in fear of their lives and fear can lead to people doing brutal things.

No one is torturing. True Christianity doesn't allow that and even though many self profess Christians have done dispicable, evil things in the name of God which I might add that the bible said this will happen but such acts goes against the very grain of God's word.
The following is not a statement made by me...wrong person...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry I'm sure the Inquisition believed the same like you, yet they've tortured people in God's name.
What does this say about Christianity?
My point simply is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,395,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Yes without an authority morality becomes relative for instance in this country murdering unborn babies is legal but murdering homosexuals based on their sexual orientation is immoral yet in the middle east its the opposite. Who is right, who is moral?



Nazism was not Christian in fact its the opposite, they were atheists, applying the principles of evolution to their ideology, "natural selection" the strong survive and the weak either die off or are killed off. They believed they were the master race and from them humanity would be perfect as they purged the world of "imperfection" such as myself.

Just what part of the bible did you read that? I believe it said, first shall become last and the last shall become first, the meek shall inherit the earth
Hitler was a Catholic... Hitler's own words from Mein Kampf...Good read.

Nazi's were socialist christian.
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:37 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,489,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post

Nazi's were socialist christian.
This is what scares me the most about the rise of the "Cult of Obama" in America right now.

It is based on the same form of thinking that allows all sorts of evil to be done as long at the goal is seen to better the society.
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