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Old 11-07-2011, 10:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Here is the exact Catechism source for what i mentioned in case you are not familiar with this official RCC teaching , starting with #1475 :


1475 In the communion of saints, "a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things."[86] In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others. Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.
1476 We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church's treasury, which is "not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the 'treasury of the Church' is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ's merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their effficacy."[87] 1477 "This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission the Father entrusted to them. In this way they attained their own salvation and at the same time cooperated in saving their brothers in the unity of the Mystical Body."[88

Do you care to defend this as truth in light of Gods Word ?

No, Ive not had a Catholic offend me .... Im just called , by Gods Word, to expose all manner of evil and defend the real Gospel of Christ while trying to help you see the error of your ways so you can get back on the right track.
again you have sarcastically maybe purposefully misread those ???copied points--i will not correct you as you seem to think that you were sent on this earth to make everyone believe as you do and if you think you were---start questioning WHO is really telling you to do this----my vote is NOT GOD
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cokatie View Post
I apologize again for my delay in responding to you and hope you understand the situation.

Honestly, Eusebius, I wasn't asking you to join us! As long as you're happy where you are, and I'm happy where I am - then God bless the both of us! I really am very open about how others choose to find their road to salvation and whatever higher being they choose to worship. This is their journey in life and I believe we have all been blessed with free will. I do love to discuss religion with others and discover the differences and the similarities that so many of us share. I have a true love of the Jewish faith which is SO rich in tradition and I have an immense sense of respect for people of that religion who have been persecuted so unfairly throughout history.

In addition, I have found great peace among members of the population who practice Buddhism - and in particular - I have been SO humbled by the words and actions of the present Dalai Lama. Funny enough, when viewing pictures of him during mediation, Mother Teresa at prayer and John Paul II at prayer - all three of them seem to share the same sense of peace and oneness with a greater being which I think all of us seek to find.

I also agree with you that through-out the history of the RCC, there have been moments of great shame, which as a member, is thus extended onto me. I've been very fortunate through-out life to meet with people far smarter and aware than I am. That's not to put me down - trust me, I can hold my own! But it serves to inspire me to want to learn more. For example, I can totally identify with some of Martin Luther's rightful rage at the condition and actions of a large number of RCC officials which resulted in his break from the church.

Personally speaking, I would have been pissed off WAY before 1517. I would have been horrified starting in 1492 when the Spanish Inquisition started. And as furious as I would have been when Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre (1009), I think that The Crusades which kicked off in 1063 and lasted till almost 1300 were just awful. But again, others far wiser in historical events could easily prove me wrong on this point.

I would hope you believe me when I tell you that I was probably more horrified than you at the latest scandal to hit the church. Horrified, disgusted, furious - empty words that can't even begin to describe it. My love of children, their innocence and trust. To be so BRUTALLY violated. There are no words. I find the actions of the bishops and the cardinals in covering up this scandal equally reprehensible. The priests who committed the crimes should have been flung into jail. And the bishops and cardinals along with them for covering up a crime. ALL of them should have lost their collars. Every single last one of them. And don't worry that I'm just posting this here on an anonymous website - I've made my feelings known to the many priests I know - and also in a letter to my local bishop explaining why there would be less in my weekly envelope. I am NOT going to be party to paying for the legal expenses of defending these monsters. I would personally like to see a far more public and heartfelt Mea Maxima Culpa from the Pope.

So why am I still a practicing RC? Because, as one of the other posters here said, it's home. It just is. It is just a constant in my life. Through good times and through bad. It's always been there as a consolation and a sanctuary to me. You know, it's like your family. I don't think any of us were lucky enough to have been brought up like Beaver. There's ups and downs in every family. There are times (especially in your teens!) that you just HATE your Mom or your Dad or your brother or your sister. But you still come home at night. It's a place where with all your faults, they love you still.

The RCC is a LARGE organization of very human people. We're not always going to agree with each other on every issue. But we're also not going to walk away because we don't get our way. Again, I've been so fortunate in my life to have travelled through-out the world. And each Sunday morning, wherever I found myself, I would easily be able to locate a RCC and immediately feel "at home". From the grandeur (and extraordinary good fortune) of having a mass celebrated by Pope John Paul II at St. Peters, to celebrating mass with the Maori people on the south island of New Zealand, to an open air mass on the island of Bora Bora, and even to celebrating mass at a mission in the sands of Dubai. Anywhere I went, I would always know that I could find a "peace of home", a sense of the familiar, shared traditions, feeling as part of the "local family" - all within the comfort of my church. The Roman Catholic Church.

And I hate to end this on a note of correction, but just to your point above, we've been around far longer than 1500 years, my friend. Before the New Testament was written, there was a man called Jesus. And at the end of His time on earth, He handed His vision for His Father's new church (His Kingdom) to the twelve who were his Apostles. And more specifically (as mentioned in my other post) to Peter. And when Peter died in the year 67, the mantle was then passed to Linus. And from Linus, it went to Cletus, and then to Clement. And it has continued onward, without a break, right up to today.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: List of Popes

And after the death of Our Lord, and as He had commanded them - the Apostles began their mission of spreading the good news. And through them, and their travels, and their letters, and what they told the faithful - the New Testament was written and recorded. But please bear this "chicken and the egg" complexity in mind: Before there WAS a New Testament, there was Jesus. And when Jesus departed he entrusted His Kingdom to the twelve. And of the twelve, he singled out St. Peter as the leader. And even biblically speaking, there is no doubt of that.

It is Peter who receives into the Church the first converts, alike from Judaism and from heathenism (Acts 2:41; 10:5 sq.), who works the first miracle (Acts 3:1 sqq.), who inflicts the first ecclesiastical penalty (Acts 5:1 sqq.). It is Peter who casts out of the Church the first heretic, Simon Magus (Acts 8:21), who makes the first Apostolic visitation of the churches (Acts 9:32), and who pronounces the first dogmatic decision (Acts 15:7). So indisputable was his position that when St. Paul was about to undertake the work of preaching to the heathen the Gospel which Christ had revealed to him, he regarded it as necessary to obtain recognition from Peter (Galatians 1:18). More than this was not needful: for the approbation of Peter was definitive.

So, at the end of this VERY long missive, can we get along? As I stated at the beginning - ABSOLUTELY. Wherever it is that you find your peace, your redemption, your truth - then that is home for you. And I mean this sincerely - I am TRULY happy for you. I don't seek to judge you, mock you, insult you, condemn you, anger you - none of these things. As far as I'm aware, we both honor and worship the same God and the Son He sent to redeem us. From a factual, historical and personal point of view, however, I will expect the same courtesy to be extended to me and to my religion.

Peace!
Being born and raised a Catholic but left that organization years ago, I can still fellowship with Catholics. Sometimes I still meet with my other family members and go to their Catholic church.

By the way, since the Catholic church finds its first "pope" in Peter, it really needs to leave us of the nations alone. Why?

In Galatians 2 Peter, James and John agreed with the apostle Paul that they would be for the Circumcision yet Paul for the nations.

And in Acts Peter said to the nations:

Act 15:19 Wherefore I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back to God,
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:02 AM
 
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Default probably not

In visiting many local churches from week to week
in 4 out of 5 churches the pastor actually stood there at the pulpit
making derogatory statements regarding the Catholic faith.

It seemed quite off subject, and we cancelled out returning.
Any pastor who hasn't the confidence in his own sermon enough to bash ANY race or creed.. is not worthy of our tithe. Go peddle that somewhere else.

It seemed like the antithesis of "walk in love".. something being a Christian is supposed to evoke.

The good news... if you use discernment there are churches out there that will suit you without feeding you ugliness, but instead you can grow in God's velvety love.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntieannie68 View Post
again you have sarcastically maybe purposefully misread those ???copied points--i will not correct you as you seem to think that you were sent on this earth to make everyone believe as you do and if you think you were---start questioning WHO is really telling you to do this----my vote is NOT GOD
No, i didnt 'mis read' CCC1475-77 from the Catholic Catechism. There is only ONE way to eternal salvation and that comes thru Christs atoning death / his shed blood ALONE..and not thru any other extraneous means -- least of all deposited good works from dead catholics of ages past for living catholics to apply toward their own salvation. And this is something that you couldnt possibly defend as the truth because it so blatantly contracts the very Gospel of Christ that saves.

WHO is really telling me to do this, is Gods Word . It is a good and proper thing to expose heresy where Christ is concerned and ill continue to do so on a daily basis . The same that the Apostle Paul did in Galatians 1:6-10 .
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:18 PM
 
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countryswan, good word.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
No, i didnt 'mis read' CCC1475-77 from the Catholic Catechism. There is only ONE way to eternal salvation and that comes thru Christs atoning death / his shed blood ALONE..and not thru any other extraneous means -- least of all deposited good works from dead catholics of ages past for living catholics to apply toward their own salvation. And this is something that you couldnt possibly defend as the truth because it so blatantly contracts the very Gospel of Christ that saves.

WHO is really telling me to do this, is Gods Word . It is a good and proper thing to expose heresy where Christ is concerned and ill continue to do so on a daily basis . The same that the Apostle Paul did in Galatians 1:6-10 .





you need prayers and intervention so you can really become a true follower of christ
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:13 PM
 
1,785 posts, read 2,925,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
No, i didnt 'mis read' CCC1475-77 from the Catholic Catechism. There is only ONE way to eternal salvation and that comes thru Christs atoning death / his shed blood ALONE..and not thru any other extraneous means -- least of all deposited good works from dead catholics of ages past for living catholics to apply toward their own salvation. And this is something that you couldnt possibly defend as the truth because it so blatantly contracts the very Gospel of Christ that saves.

WHO is really telling me to do this, is Gods Word . It is a good and proper thing to expose heresy where Christ is concerned and ill continue to do so on a daily basis . The same that the Apostle Paul did in Galatians 1:6-10 .
I'm sorry 007.5, but has whatever "church" you've attached yourself to (what IS it, by the way?) placed you under the delusional belief that you personally will be zipping right up to Heaven immediately following your death on earth? And if so, would that be because you have been "baptized" or that other popular one used ... "reborn"? Certainly baptism would have "washed" away your sins - but when WAS this baptism? And since this baptism, have you personally remained free from all sins? Are you claiming to be so superior to about 99.9999% of the earth's population that you are completely free from sin?

I have warned you before, my friend, "Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:1112). I'm willing to let your heresy go since I understand you are misguided - but surely you are not making a claim of being sinless?

I just want to get a grasp on the above, and then I will be more than happy to walk you through the parts of the CC where you have questions/concerns.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:37 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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I have thought about going to a Sunday Service of the local Catholic Church a couple of blocks away from our house. I have walked past there with my dogs on a few Sunday morning and thought how pleasant the folk are going in there. I walked past last Sunday and the Priest was standing at the front door with all his gear on, welcoming the Catholics in, it was quite chilly, I almost shouted out to him "you look cold" after he acknowledged me, but I thought better of it, he might just have taken it the wrong way. What I like about Catholics and Church of England Anglicans is they seem genuine people, yea they may be steeped in tradition and put up with all the pomp and ceremony and believe a few whacky things, I don't think they try shoving their beliefs down your throat too, so what harm can there be in stopping by having a listen to what they have to say ?.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:46 PM
 
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It doesn't matter which protestant denomination your of, if you accept "Sun"-day as the day of rest, you are part of the Catholic Church. So it really doesn't matter if you like the Catholic church or not, your following those who took it upon theirself to change the Seventh Day Sabbath - one of the Ten Commandments that the Messiah said would never change. The Seventh Day Sabbath was created at the beginging of creation, before the Jewish nation, and will be around for all of eternity, as the prophet Isaiah said. In Matthew 24, Yahushua makes reference to the Sabbath in the very last days. In the Book of Revelation and Daniel, we are told that the beast will seek to change times and laws, hate the sacred festivals, and attack those who keep the commandments. In Revelation, after the warning of the mark of the beast, in contrast we see that for Elohim's children this means that we must endure persecution patiently and obey His commandments.

The Catholic Church burned people to death, who refused to honor Sunday (the venerable day of the sun) and kept the Seventh Day instead. It was a LAW punishable by death.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Being born and raised a Catholic but left that organization years ago, I can still fellowship with Catholics. Sometimes I still meet with my other family members and go to their Catholic church.

By the way, since the Catholic church finds its first "pope" in Peter, it really needs to leave us of the nations alone. Why?

In Galatians 2 Peter, James and John agreed with the apostle Paul that they would be for the Circumcision yet Paul for the nations.

And in Acts Peter said to the nations:

Act 15:19 Wherefore I decide not to be harassing those from the nations who are turning back to God,
Eusebius, I know I must be missing something, but it seems like you are asking about the issue of circumcision on both your points above? What does the issue of circumcision have to do with any group that fell away from the Roman Catholic Church?
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