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Old 01-01-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: In a chartreuse microbus
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Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Catholics believe that Jesus Christ Himself created the Catholic Church to speak for Him in time in matters of faith and morals.

There is no "confusion" in the Catholic Church about this or about the role of the saints, including Mary (the greatest saint of them all). In fact, the only "confusion" here appears to be YOUR erroneous perceptions about what the Catholic Church actually teaches.

Moreover, there are plenty of Protestants who reject the doctrine of "eternal security." Do you think they are also "confused" or is this label reserved exclusively for your Catholic brethren?
No I do not. Uncertainty can beleaguer anyone who puts traditions and rituals above a solid belief in the risen Christ.
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Old 01-01-2010, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sirron View Post
No I do not. Uncertainty can beleaguer anyone who puts traditions and rituals above a solid belief in the risen Christ.
There are plenty of Christians who reject "Eternal Security" who ALSO happen to possess a "solid belief in the risen Christ." Jesus Christ is of course the "alpha and the omega" -- NOT rituals and traditions.

You seem very confused about what Catholics actually believe and why they believe them, and you appear to have learned nothing from some of the excellent posts from Catholics on this thread.

But far be it for me to interrupt your love-fest with your "certainty" about your eternal fate!
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Old 01-01-2010, 01:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
Don't blame progressive thinking, blame the institutional church for not wanting to leave the medieval time period.

I think the Dutch Catholics and Proteatants in this article might question your thinking.

Cover story -- Holland: The Dutch plan
"medieval time period" I can come back with just as many articles proving my point.

Progressive thinking leads to ecumenicalism...you see there was a time in Europe when all sides were fundamentalists which led to a strict, staunch, rigid thinking and also regretably led to alot of arguments even W.A.R. (We are right) where much innocent blood was shed so after the fall of the Berlin wall europe saw a light at the end of the tunnel, that all things were possible unfortunately instead of being balanced and still be staunch about their beliefs YET civil they went to the other extreme "progressive thinking" where no one has the truth, that everyone could be right and peace and unity became more important than the truth itself or being right so much so that denominations started to work together so well in europe that the lines were blurred and it really didn't matter who was right as long as their was unity, afterall isn't that what Jesus wanted? Furthermore muslims, jews, even buddhists were invited and a growing "universalism" became the voice of progressive thinking, it didn't matter anyone can be anything just as long as you are a contributing member of humanity; not a rapist or a murderer but "spiritual" and not "religious" and God still loves you so really what is the point of being a Christian, going to church etc....? It doesn't work for them and they were lied to that it doesn't matter. If everyone is coming together, just using different paths to get to the same destination then I can choose my own path as well.

"Progressive thinking" is darkness and one the best tools of the devil I have ever seen but it is also the consequences of the sin of (to borrow the term from CNN and other liberal news so as not to offend our Muslim brothers and sisters) "EXTREME" fundamentalism
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Old 01-01-2010, 02:03 PM
 
702 posts, read 812,565 times
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Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
Tsk tsk.

There you go again, presenting New Age doctrine as Christian Truth.

The notion that "evil is that which causes separation" (or "divisiveness" as you call it) is one of the primary principles of the occult:
Characteristics of salvation according to proponents of the New Age.

* It is the unfolding of one's consciousness to the point where the true self, the divine nature, is realized. As a flower unfolds petal by petal, so too does spiritual evolution unfold, revealing the deeper realms of God-consciousness.

*It is the gaining of enlightenment. It is a state of consciousness where the person's separation from other humans is transcended and unity is achieved.


Read more...

New Age Seduction - Christian Information

Deceived by a counterfeit "Jesus" - The twisted "truths" of The Shack & A Course in Miracles
It also seems to be rooted in postmodernism: the elevation of the subjective over the objective. What matters is that we get along and feel good with each other, but don't bring up any objective truth that points out differences because that would create division.

But certain types of division are correct, namely, departing from false teaching. I'm not going to have fellowship with a group, for example, that denies the Trinity and teaches that Jesus Christ was a created being. Similarly, I'm not going to have fellowship with people who deny Sola Fide--a vital doctrine. When that doctrine is denied, ultimately one ends up with a denial of Solus Christus as well in that it adds good works--cooperation with infused righteousness--to the blood and merits of Christ as a prerequisite for justification.
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Old 01-01-2010, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Similarly, I'm not going to have fellowship with people who deny Sola Fide--a vital doctrine. When that doctrine is denied, ultimately one ends up with a denial of Solus Christus as well in that it adds good works--cooperation with infused righteousness--to the blood and merits of Christ as a prerequisite for justification.
Horsepuckey, as my "friend" and nemesis Axis would say. Solus Christus means . . . IT IS FINISHED . . . the connection of the human race to God is accomplished. All that remains is for each of us to achieve a degree of harmony with the "mind of Christ" in "love of God and each other." The refinement of that resonance is what "walking in Christ" is all about and what "true freedom" is. Faith is an ambiguous term and can be uttered . . . but not necessarily understood or meant. Living in the love of Christ is what is important . . . and that can be done regardless what you SAY you believe.
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Old 01-02-2010, 09:50 PM
 
702 posts, read 812,565 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Horsepuckey, as my "friend" and nemesis Axis would say. Solus Christus means . . . IT IS FINISHED . . . the connection of the human race to God is accomplished.
Sorry, that is not what the term means. The Latin term means "Christ alone," and when the Reformers used it they referred to the fact that sinners are justified on the basis of the merits of Christ's shed blood alone, and on nothing else. The ground of justification lies in the merits of Christ's blood. It does not mean merely, "It is finished."

Given this (correct) definition of "Solus Christus," denying sola fide leads to denying solus Christus. If we are not saved by faith alone but by faith plus our cooperation with infused grace to live righteously, then it is no longer "Christ alone." But thanks be to God that believers have "the righteousness from God that depends on faith" (Phil. 3:9, ESV).

Protestants who hold to the Reformed meaning of "Solus Christus," therefore, have a crucial difference with Roman Catholicism when it comes to Rome's denial of sola fide.
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:38 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The only Sola or Solus that matters to ANY Christian is "Solus Christus!!! The rest are divisive . . . and divisiveness is "heresy."
Calling Martin Luther.....
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:40 PM
 
37,573 posts, read 25,275,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
Sorry, that is not what the term means. The Latin term means "Christ alone," and when the Reformers used it they referred to the fact that sinners are justified on the basis of the merits of Christ's shed blood alone, and on nothing else. The ground of justification lies in the merits of Christ's blood. It does not mean merely, "It is finished."
I KNOW the latin translation, my brother . . . the POINT of "Christ alone" is that salvation has been accomplished . . . the human race is connected to God . . . something we could not do on our own. That was the hard part . . . but faith is dead if it changes nothing about you. We have to try to be more Christlike . . . to be "in tune" with Christ's love for God and each of us. That is why He gave us the commandments to "love God and each other". . . THAT love gets us the cover of Jesus' grace.
Quote:
Given this (correct) definition of "Solus Christus," denying sola fide leads to denying solus Christus. If we are not saved by faith alone but by faith plus our cooperation with infused grace to live righteously, then it is no longer "Christ alone." But thanks be to God that believers have "the righteousness from God that depends on faith" (Phil. 3:9, ESV).
Spouting your belief and faith in Christ and NOT having that love in your heart is worthless. There is no magic here. We are NOT here to "brown nose" God and feed His ego . . . we are to be as much like Him in "love of God and each other" as possible . . ."some a hundred-fold, some sixty-fold and some thirty-fold." Since nothing less than "thirty-fold" was mentioned . . . it might be a good idea not to cut corners.
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:48 PM
 
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ya....sola gloria is divisive?????? Which Christus? Morman's Jesus satan's brother or Jehovah Witness, Jesus is Michael the arch angel.......as opposed to Jesus being God. Sounds divisive to me.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-02-2010 at 11:05 PM..
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Sure, Protestants and Catholics can get along. All they need is a common enemy.
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