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Old 10-13-2009, 11:46 PM
 
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Here is a link to a short article concerning the erroneous teaching of Universalism.

Universalism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

(be sure to go to the links in the article.)

And regarding Matthew 25:46 ''These go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''

The same Greek word--aionios-- is used for eternal punishment and for eternal life.

Go to the following link and scroll down the page to see what the parallel commentaries say about Matthew 25:46.

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Last edited by Mike555; 10-14-2009 at 12:16 AM..
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:59 PM
 
5,756 posts, read 4,606,683 times
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1 John

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.


7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[b] into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. 13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.



God is love.


Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:35 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,784,140 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
1 John

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.


7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[b] into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. 13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.



God is love.


Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
Unfortunately sparrow, their God is not one of love and mercy for his creation. But one of little mercy and full of vegence..a tyrant.
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:50 AM
 
5,756 posts, read 4,606,683 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Unfortunately sparrow, their God is not one of love and mercy for his creation. But one of little mercy and full of vegence..a tyrant.
Y'know sometimes I sit and wonder and think about our Father..

Suppose when you die and God asks you (even though He already knows the answer) "So... what did you believe about me...? Did you believe the love.... or did you believe the sick, twisted, wrath? Which did you believe, my child...?" Imagine the second question being "Why?"


Well not sure why I'm posting that really.... it's just something that comes into my mind from time to time. You have to really think about it. Think about your answer to why.

God loves us.
If God is for us..(which He is) we really shouldn't fear.
Perfect love casts out all fear.

I believe that God wants us to discover Him.
It takes getting past a bit of darkness first...
I just don't like to see people getting engulfed by the darkness.
Because I know that they are my brother or sister.
No matter how much our views may vary or even be polar opposites....
I know, in the end, we will all be humbled by His love.
Me, You, every single person.
Absolutely HUMBLED by His Love.
I try to keep that in mind as much as possible these days.
In Adam all died... In Christ all shall find life.
Hallelujah.

love ya,
sparrow
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Here is a link to a short article concerning the erroneous teaching of Universalism.

Universalism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

(be sure to go to the links in the article.)

And regarding Matthew 25:46 ''These go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''

The same Greek word--aionios-- is used for eternal punishment and for eternal life.

Go to the following link and scroll down the page to see what the parallel commentaries say about Matthew 25:46.

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Quote from said article:
"To deny the deity of Christ, is to deny one of the essential doctrines of salvation. In this sense, those universalists who deny the deity of Christ are in a false religious belief system. Of course, when one essential doctrine is denied, many other historic biblical doctrines are also denied and salvation is void because the object of faith is false."

I have a problem with the "historic biblical doctrines." If that is not a crystal clear example of "if you don't believe what I believe" statement... I don't know what is! So a universalist can be saved but only if they still adhere to all the tenets of this guys church? Nice... I am glad he is able to sort out my salvation for me.. lucky for me, salvation comes from God not the author of the article!

"The cults are particularly guilty of using biblical words with non-biblical definitions. This is absolutely necessary among them in order to maintain some sort of internal consistency of theology. So too, with many universalists."

But alas universalism is a cult...

It is clear this author doesn't really understand universalism... and it is weird that reading the article was like reading some people's posts... same stuff... interesting.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:58 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,363 posts, read 20,092,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Unfortunately sparrow, their God is not one of love and mercy for his creation. But one of little mercy and full of vegence..a tyrant.
Except for them of cause , who for some unknown reason conveniently have forgetten that God revealed Himself to them at their worst, loved them before they even understood what repentance meant never mind repented , and for some bizarre reason are not willing to share with the world the same love and mercy shown to themselves.Freely you have received , freely give.

Last edited by pcamps; 10-14-2009 at 05:06 AM..
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:14 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,363 posts, read 20,092,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Except for them of cause , who for some unknown reason conveniently have forgetten that God revealed Himself to them at their worst, loved them before they even understood what repentance meant never mind repented , and for some bizarre reason are not willing to share with the world the same love and mercy shown to themselves.Freely you have received , freely give.
Just to add to this post Jesus told us to pray "Your(God's) will be done."

What is God's will concerning the lost ?

1 Timothy 2

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Why o Why are fundamentalists resisting God's will concerning the lost ?

Do they really believe how they sound "that salvation belongs just to them" ?

Last edited by pcamps; 10-14-2009 at 06:38 AM..
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,647,727 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Here is a link to a short article concerning the erroneous teaching of Universalism.

Universalism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

(be sure to go to the links in the article.)

And regarding Matthew 25:46 ''These go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''

The same Greek word--aionios-- is used for eternal punishment and for eternal life.

Go to the following link and scroll down the page to see what the parallel commentaries say about Matthew 25:46.

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Of course the same word is used for both. The word "aionios" means something will continue beyond the age. It doesn't specify an end point so whatever continues beyond the age may or may not have an end - aionios doesn't address that part at all. But we know the punishment will come to an end since the Greek word for Punishment there is "kolasis" which means a punishment that results from curtailing. Now you haven't curtailed nothing if the curtailment never comes. Therefore, it should be obvious to anyone that researches this that the punishment has an end and this punishment could be likened to parents giving punishment to their children in order to CORRECT them.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:24 AM
 
20,359 posts, read 15,743,543 times
Reputation: 7518
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Of course the same word is used for both. The word "aionios" means something will continue beyond the age. It doesn't specify an end point so whatever continues beyond the age may or may not have an end - aionios doesn't address that part at all. But we know the punishment will come to an end since the Greek word for Punishment there is "kolasis" which means a punishment that results from curtailing. Now you haven't curtailed nothing if the curtailment never comes. Therefore, it should be obvious to anyone that researches this that the punishment has an end and this punishment could be likened to parents giving punishment to their children in order to CORRECT them.
The punishment is not corrective. It is not for purposes of purification. The unbeliever is eternally separated from God because he has rejected the means of salvation that God has provided, and therefore remains spiritually dead. God must keep His holiness intact and free from compromise. He provided the one means of salvation that would not compromise His righteousness. Therefore, those who reject that offer of salvation cannot enter into the presence of God. If a person does not believe in Christ for salvation during his life on this earth, then his eternal destiny in the lake of fire has been decided.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,656 posts, read 1,717,800 times
Reputation: 845
these things have been discussed over and over again:

conservative Prof. Stroeter on the subject of everlasting punishment

my letter to CARM run by Matt Slick

Matthew 25:46

Quote:
The punishment is not corrective.
Mt. 25:46 Textus Receptus

και απελευσονται ουτοι εις κολασιν αιωνιον οι δε δικαιοι εις ζωην αιωνιον

look on you own what the dictionary says:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...y%3Dko%2Flasis

if Jesus had meant everlasting torment He would rather used timória or basanos
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