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Old 10-14-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,111,322 times
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It is well known that some critics of the Bible, in particular Jesus, have started this debate . . . it is an old story, but false.

There is much historical and archaelogical evidence pointing to the existence of tiny Nazareth, well before Jesus was born . . .Archaeological research has revealed a funerary and cult center at Kfar HaHoresh, about two miles (3 km) from Nazareth, dating back roughly 9000 years (to what is known as the Pre-Pottery Neolithic BPre-Pottery Neolithic B
Pre-Pottery Neolithic B is a division of the Neolithic developed by Dame Kathleen Kenyon during her archaeological excavations at Jericho in the southern Levant region....
era). The remains of some 65 individuals were found, buried under huge horizontal headstone structures, some of which consisted of up to 3 tons of locally-produced white plaster. Decorated human skulls uncovered there have led archaeologists to believe that Kfar HaHoresh was a major cult centre in that remote era.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:16 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,459,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
OMGoodness...do you know what a Nazarite was? I suggest you go study that one and you will be delightfully enlightened. The town of Nazareth did not exist and has absolutely nothing to do with a Nazarite Vow.
I did from the existence of King David to Caiphus
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:20 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,111,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Jesus was called a Nazarene. They said he was from Nazareth but this place did not exist in the time of Jesus and there is much historical evidence to back this up that is being revealed in the Dead Sea Scrolls. There was, however, a Sect of the Essenes called the Nazarenes who were Gnostic.

Was Jesus a Gnostic? Paul's epistles and the writings attributed to John are very Gnostic and according to scripture, Paul and John learned directly from Jesus. Are there higher spirititual truths to be found that are not in scripture and how do we find them?
There is much more archaelogical evidence found that proves existence of this tiny remote village . . . national geographic not long ago did a show on this .. and they are very secular . . . Time magazine had a major arachaelogical edition last year on this and some other related topics.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:23 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,111,322 times
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If what we are told in the Bible is 'actually true', then Jesus is the incarnate Deity and so terms like gnosis (intuition), episteme (knowledge), pistis (faith), noesis (insight) apply only under very determinate conditions.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,122,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
It is well known that some critics of the Bible, in particular Jesus, have started this debate . . . it is an old story, but false.

There is much historical and archaelogical evidence pointing to the existence of tiny Nazareth, well before Jesus was born . . .Archaeological research has revealed a funerary and cult center at Kfar HaHoresh, about two miles (3 km) from Nazareth, dating back roughly 9000 years (to what is known as the Pre-Pottery Neolithic BPre-Pottery Neolithic B
Pre-Pottery Neolithic B is a division of the Neolithic developed by Dame Kathleen Kenyon during her archaeological excavations at Jericho in the southern Levant region....
era). The remains of some 65 individuals were found, buried under huge horizontal headstone structures, some of which consisted of up to 3 tons of locally-produced white plaster. Decorated human skulls uncovered there have led archaeologists to believe that Kfar HaHoresh was a major cult centre in that remote era.
The town of Nazareth did not exist well into the 2nd century (over 100 years after Jesus supposedly lived there)...there is archeological evidence to support this.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I did from the existence of King David to Caiphus
So you equate someone who takes a Nazarite Vow as someone being from a town called Nazareth? R U kidding me?
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,122,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
It is well known that some critics of the Bible, in particular Jesus, have started this debate . . . it is an old story, but false.

There is much historical and archaelogical evidence pointing to the existence of tiny Nazareth, well before Jesus was born . . .Archaeological research has revealed a funerary and cult center at Kfar HaHoresh, about two miles (3 km) from Nazareth, dating back roughly 9000 years (to what is known as the Pre-Pottery Neolithic BPre-Pottery Neolithic B
Pre-Pottery Neolithic B is a division of the Neolithic developed by Dame Kathleen Kenyon during her archaeological excavations at Jericho in the southern Levant region....
era). The remains of some 65 individuals were found, buried under huge horizontal headstone structures, some of which consisted of up to 3 tons of locally-produced white plaster. Decorated human skulls uncovered there have led archaeologists to believe that Kfar HaHoresh was a major cult centre in that remote era.
P.S....a little Jewish fact is that they would have never lived anywhere near a cemetery.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:48 AM
 
34,721 posts, read 8,956,610 times
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This is correct, Christy. The existence of a neolithic burial site no more implies a 1st century Nazareth than the Sutton Hoo burial proves there is a town there (there isn't).

Nazirites have been long known. They took a vow, grew their hair long and abstained from alcohol. There was a corner court in the Court of the women in the Jerusalem temple which was connected with the discharging of Nazirite vows. There is every likelihood that Jesus was known as the Nazorene as he was a Nazirite.

There is also some evidence for a sect of Nazirites within Phariseeism. If so, Jesus may well have been leader and his brother James became leader after his death. It is also a persuasive argument that Jesus took over after John's death which would mean that John was also a Nazirite.

There is a possible link with 'Nazir' (prince) but I don't know how much can be made of that. The general etymology is held to be 'Netzer' (branch) and the references to banches and trees and grafting in the NT might support that. Though Paul's references to grafting (trees, not work) are not analogous, the idea of a grafted branch might be there in his imagery.

And, of course, Jesus might have been called a Nazorene because he came from Nazoreth. After all, Joseph of Arimathea seems to have been called after his own city as perhaps Judas (of Kerioth) was called after his.

Against this is that Nazareth doubtfully existed in the 1st c. It is pointed out that it is never mentioned until well after that time. Josephus never refers to it though the siege of nearby Sepphoris should have earned it a mention.

The archaeology is hardly impressive. A well and some artefacts hinting at no more than a hamlet and more likely a farm. Hardly somewhere to 'come from'. Certainly not somewhere with a full -blown synagogue full of neigbours numerous and distant enough to try to an assassination attempt when Jesus rubbed them up the wrong way.

Since the archaeology seems to indicate that Nazoreth grew up after the devastation of the Jewish war, I wonder whether it could have been named after Nazorenes who were settled there after the destruction of Sepphoris? But, if so, what were Nazorenes doing holding a major city against a Roman seige?

Your argument has merit, Christy. We need to look to the Nazorenes rather than to Nazoreth for etymology. And I'm afraid, lifesigns, that your argument from stone age graves doesn't have merit.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,122,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
This is correct, Christy. The existence of a neolithic burial site no more implies a 1st century Nazareth than the Sutton Hoo burial proves there is a town there (there isn't).

Nazirites have been long known. They took a vow, grew their hair long and abstained from alcohol. There was a corner court in the Court of the women in the Jerusalem temple which was connected with the discharging of Nazirite vows. There is every likelihood that Jesus was known as the Nazorene as he was a Nazirite.

There is also some evidence for a sect of Nazirites within Phariseeism. If so, Jesus may well have been leader and his brother James became leader after his death. It is also a persuasive argument that Jesus took over after John's death which would mean that John was also a Nazirite.

There is a possible link with 'Nazir' (prince) but I don't know how much can be made of that. The general etymology is held to be 'Netzer' (branch) and the references to banches and trees and grafting in the NT might support that. Though Paul's references to grafting (trees, not work) are not analogous, the idea of a grafted branch might be there in his imagery.

And, of course, Jesus might have been called a Nazorene because he came from Nazoreth. After all, Joseph of Arimathea seems to have been called after his own city as perhaps Judas (of Kerioth) was called after his.

Against this is that Nazareth doubtfully existed in the 1st c. It is pointed out that it is never mentioned until well after that time. Josephus never refers to it though the siege of nearby Sepphoris should have earned it a mention.

The archaeology is hardly impressive. A well and some artefacts hinting at no more than a hamlet and more likely a farm. Hardly somewhere to 'come from'. Certainly not somewhere with a full -blown synagogue full of neigbours numerous and distant enough to try to an assassination attempt when Jesus rubbed them up the wrong way.

Since the archaeology seems to indicate that Nazoreth grew up after the devastation of the Jewish war, I wonder whether it could have been named after Nazorenes who were settled there after the destruction of Sepphoris? But, if so, what were Nazorenes doing holding a major city against a Roman seige?

Your argument has merit, Christy. We need to look to the Nazorenes rather than to Nazoreth for etymology. And I'm afraid, lifesigns, that your argument from stone age graves doesn't have merit.
Thank you for the vindication...it's amazing the dogma some people hold to when there is plenty of historical evidence out there that says otherwise. I am a very firm believer that there is so much more spiritual information to be given to us by God but we will never receive it until we kill the "carnal man" in us all along with all of the man made myths we believe in.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,137,219 times
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That makes sense, Arequipa. I went to the web and did some searching on Nazorite/Nazarite. Here is part of what is explained and it can also tie into what I study for my church. It would make sense as to why Jesus would become a messiah as He was entirely dedicated to God.

"Nazirites may or may not have also been prophets. Nazirites where those uniquely dedicated to God and singled out as special gifts to his people. These individuals were out side the Levite priesthood and were used by God through word and example to call his people to faithfulness.

Moderator cut: eited to comply with copywrite rules which say that a short snipped is about two sentences

Prophet, Nazorite, High Priest, and Son of God (http://www.americanunitarian.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=41 - broken link)

Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-14-2009 at 09:49 AM.. Reason: to comply with the copywrite rules
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