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Old 10-14-2009, 01:05 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,328 posts, read 20,055,628 times
Reputation: 2113

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
LOL....You think I was born yesterday, throwing verses at me

Why do you have to confess and repent? If we are not guilty then we shouldn't have to do anything. We should be free and free men need nothing let alone the cross?
You have no idea what repentance is . If you think it means stop sinning you are a million miles of the mark.

What was the point of the Cross if you think you can stop sinning ? .


Now show me a scripture that tells us we must confess our sin when we believe ?, whether that maybe privately or openly.

When we believe are the keywords in my question. I will ignore all your other posts until you show me the scripture to back this up.
Which i should have done when i proved from the scripture your insistance the only way to salvation is through a contrite heart.

I have already explained to you Jesus came that we maybe free from the guilty conscience we all have . What is the draw back from a guilty conscience ?

Answer
Because of our alienated carnal mind we believe that God is not accepting of us , so rather than approaching Him boldly , we run the other way.

Hebrews 10

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21And having an high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

With a an evil conscience(guilty) we could never enter into the holiest of holies in boldness

Last edited by pcamps; 10-14-2009 at 01:15 PM..
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,328 posts, read 20,055,628 times
Reputation: 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
LOL....You think I was born yesterday, throwing verses about believing at me.
Fundy i believe all you know is an abundance of different doctrines that contradict each other .
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:12 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Fundy i believe all you know is an abundance of different doctrines that contradict each other .
Why must innocent people confess and repent? Why must they believe and worship and say, He is Lord? If you are innocent then the cross is useless?

What if I don't repent
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,113,386 times
Reputation: 636
Jesus message is Love, we all agree . . . but let us reason and ask ourselves these questions.

What does Eternal Mean?

What Does Worms Die Mean?

What does Unquenchable Fire Mean?

What does DEVOURED mean?

What does Perish Mean?

What does Destroyed mean?

How long does it take stubble to burn?

What do Ashes Mean?

What does SLAIN/SLAYED mean?

What does End mean?

How can we IGNORE these words/warnings?
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,328 posts, read 20,055,628 times
Reputation: 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Why must innocent people confess and repent? Why must they believe and worship and say, He is Lord? If you are innocent then the cross is useless?

What if I don't repent
Fundy our very own conscience convicts us , so there is no one innocent .

Again it is confessing Jesus as Lord Romans 10 verse 8 , not confessing our sin.

If you think repentance means stop sinning, the Cross is useless and reading your posts you believe this is what repentance means.

Why do you insist on taking credit for repentance ?

It's the goodness/kindness of God that leads/causes a man to repent .

Where is God glorified in boasting you have repented ?.

Last edited by pcamps; 10-14-2009 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,113,386 times
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Everlating, Eternal, Die, Perish, Destroy, Slain, Die, Unquenchable, Ashes, Devoured . . . . . .

Does not negate the Good News as the Good News is meant to be interpreted by Our Heavenly Father . . .

Remember, only the Blood of the Lamb covers us, redeems us, that is the GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:24 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,113,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Your own conscience convicts you if you are wrong regardless of what you believe.

Why do people look over their shoulder when they are stealing ? , why whisper when you bad mouthing someone? , and so on.
Yes, that is true, we were born with a conscious, those in Christ are spirit filled, so they have a double sense of duty, to self, to neighbor and to God.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:28 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,380,527 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
This is simply hilarious ... Only a brainwashed person could contradict his/herself so outright and think that it is not a contradiction.
Then don't read it. I mean seriously, why waste your time and especially why even respond?

Quote:
The original topic is so in your face rediculous i cant believe a rational person would actually say it, or even think it for that matter ...
For you. Some actually got something out of it. You must think everything written on here is for YOUR benefit.

Quote:
Telling people that they are going to be tortured for ever, experiencing endless agony, is not spreading fear?
There is only fear if the Spirit of God convicts their heart. Otherwise, why would they give a damn.

Quote:
Telling people that God has already sent any person who was not a christian to hell to be tortured for ever in endless agonies is not spreading fear?
Who does that? Who takes the place of judge, jury, and executioner? That is God's job, not ours.

Quote:
Using the same logic, telling people that everyone will be saved IS spreading fear ...
Only in the sense that it is a lie. Their fear will come on the day when they stand in front of God without a Savior. Many will say TO HIM on that day, Lord, Lord. His response, if you care to read your bible? "Depart FROM me, I NEVER knew YOU".

Now, if the person who is hearing this or reading it without Jesus in their heart doesn't express fear at that point in time? But more than that, it would be sorrow and torment if the Spirit convicts them. They are WITHOUT a Savior to intercede on their behalf.


Quote:
I mean come on people what on earth is wrong with you ... ?
Why does something have to be wrong with us? How do you know there is not something wrong with you?

Quote:
How can you sit there and tell a Christian man or woman (or a non-Christian man or woman for that matter) that if they do not believe the way you do they will be tortured endlessly and suffer terrible agonies for ever is NOT a fear tactic?
Hey, got some news for you. There is this path over here called the Way. Ever heard of it? Let me tell you about it.

Quote:
Are you out of your mind?
Of course, we are Christians. Christ lives within us, so we are beside ourselves and out of our minds.

Quote:
Or talking about everlasting tortures of non-Christians on international radio or international television or writing a book about it that is sold internationally is not spreading fear?
Only if the receiving person is being pulled in by God and are one of the evil types Paul talked about, AND the Spirit is convicting their hearts. Fear SHOULD grip them, entirely. It is only then that you can see the magnitude of what Jesus did on your behalf, and how gloriously in love with you, He is. Perfect Benevolant Love. There is no love greater than this.

Quote:
When these "Christian" beliefs of everlasting torture and death are heard in China or in India and an old Hindu woman who lost much of her family in a terrible accident like that tsunami(a terribly tragic situation to begin with) that killed so many people isn't giving her reason to be afraid?
Actually, they hear it with great rejoicing. They actually have a more biblical community than is seen over here, and really, most of the people in the US would not even be welcomed there. And if they did, they would probably be excommunicated in no time. They actually read the word and practice it daily.

Quote:
You people are insane if you really believe what you are saying and there is nothing else to it.
Name calling? Jesus said we would be blessed by that action. Thank you for proving His point.

Quote:
Even annihilation is spreading fear of never being able to see a loved one again.
A loved one again? This is a carnal concept. When you are dead in the flesh, the ties that bind here on earth are not remembered in the same way in the ressurection. That is why there is no marriage either. Sheesh.

Quote:
Why would a Hindu want to convert to Christianity to live forever if they find out they will never see any of their friends or family again, much worse all their friends and family are going to be endlessly tortured for ever?
Again, you are creating a god of your own image. Placing too much of the carnal into the spiritual. Reread Jesus' Words again.

Quote:
However annihilation is more of a fear thing for Christians than for people who don't believe in God, they readily accept that when they die its all over and suffer torments now in mourning their loved ones who die.
I do not fear annihilation. Fear is only for those who are not secured by Jesus and God the Father. They are "carnal" Christians who profess to be, but are not.

Quote:
But for a Christian to believe it and have loved ones who are not Christian it most certainly causes them torment.
It saddens me, but I am not tormented by it. They have their choices to make, and I would bet that most have heard the gospel. Their versions of what they believe is between them and God.

Quote:
Speaking from first hand experience here ...
Ok.....

Quote:
I feel like i am watching a horror spoof wherein the monster who is going around torturing and murdering everyone doesn't realize he is scaring them or causing them torment.
Yea,,,a carnal person would look at it this way. Not someone who has a understanding of the love, justice and righteousness of God.


Quote:
Wherein the monster thinks he is actually helping people and treating them with love ...
Yea, I know you think that the God we worship is a monster. But it is ok. That is also between you and God, and us and God.

Quote:
All i can say to this in the end is ...
Yea...
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,113,386 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
This is simply hilarious ... Only a brainwashed person could contradict his/herself so outright and think that it is not a contradiction. The original topic is so in your face rediculous i cant believe a rational person would actually say it, or even think it for that matter ...

Telling people that they are going to be tortured for ever, experiencing endless agony, is not spreading fear?

Telling people that God has already sent any person who was not a christian to hell to be tortured for ever in endless agonies is not spreading fear?

Using the same logic, telling people that everyone will be saved IS spreading fear ...


I mean come on people what on earth is wrong with you ... ? How can you sit there and tell a Christian man or woman (or a non-Christian man or woman for that matter) that if they do not believe the way you do they will be tortured endlessly and suffer terrible agonies for ever is NOT a fear tactic? Are you out of your mind?

Or talking about everlasting tortures of non-Christians on international radio or international television or writing a book about it that is sold internationally is not spreading fear? When these "Christian" beliefs of everlasting torture and death are heard in China or in India and an old Hindu woman who lost much of her family in a terrible accident like that tsunami(a terribly tragic situation to begin with) that killed so many people isn't giving her reason to be afraid?

You people are insane if you really believe what you are saying and there is nothing else to it.


Even annihilation is spreading fear of never being able to see a loved one again. Why would a Hindu want to convert to Christianity to live forever if they find out they will never see any of their friends or family again, much worse all their friends and family are going to be endlessly tortured for ever?

However annihilation is more of a fear thing for Christians than for people who don't believe in God, they readily accept that when they die its all over and suffer torments now in mourning their loved ones who die. But for a Christian to believe it and have loved ones who are not Christian it most certainly causes them torment. Speaking from first hand experience here ...

I feel like i am watching a horror spoof wherein the monster who is going around torturing and murdering everyone doesn't realize he is scaring them or causing them torment. Wherein the monster thinks he is actually helping people and treating them with love ...

All i can say to this in the end is ...


Really, then you are calling scriptures ridiculous if you think about it . . .can you tell me what this means to Ironmaw::::

The smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever??

What does this mean to Ironmaw . . . Eternal, Unquenching Fire, Die, Devoured, Destroyed, Perish, Ashes, Slain, End?????

Your posts reveal a love of God . . . I have an openmindness to everyone's belief . . but they must line up with scripture . . . .

You are calling scripture bad news . . . it's not lifesigns news, or ironmaw's news . . . it's God's News . . it's Good News . . . . it's His Plan, His Mind . . . . and no, I do not belong to an organized religion, just guided by the Spirit and Scripture, with love, Lifesigns.

Last edited by lifesigns64; 10-14-2009 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:59 PM
 
10 posts, read 12,101 times
Reputation: 20
When some of us who don't believe in the kind of God who intends to torture billions of people, with fire, for eternity say this is not consistent with a God who is purported to be the author of love, we're not saying you "don't preach love," but that your preaching about a God who is supposedly both loving and so incredibly mean cannot both be true! Moreover, your personal relief of the fear of Hell is also misplaced, because any God who would torture anyone, for any length of time, much less one who tortures billions with no end, is not the kind of deity you can count on to spare you!

I've actually written an entire book on this topic--"Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell," (for anyone interested, you can get a free Ecopy of my book at my website: Your Page Title Goes Here), but if I may, I'd like to share with you one of the many points I make in it to explain why.

Let's say you end up in Heaven trying to sing endless praises to a God who is, simultaneously, torturing billions of others. Unless you are given a de facto lobotomy (in which case, YOU would no longer be YOU, so you might as well have not had a soul to begin with), you would have to begin wondering, "When am I next?" and the joy of Heaven would be lost, replaced by gloom and foreboding! Why? Because you could never rely on a God who is so mean to be honest about making any exceptions.

After all, which is more difficult? For God to actively cause so much immense pain, for so many, for so long, or to go back on whatever promises he made to a few others that he would not put them in Hell too at some point?

It would be like accepting an invitation to live as a guest with one of these maniacal men we've been hearing about lately who kidnap, imprison, rape and torture young girls in secret basements. Can you imagine such a guy, simultaneously, having some other young lady as his dinner date, and treating her with respect and care? And even if he did for a while, wouldn't his true nature unleash itself upon her at some point in time, as it has on so many others? Of course!

The real good news, though, is that no such Cosmic Nazi exists. The fact that we are capable of any sort of love and compassion and mercy suggests that, if there is a God, he (or she) would have to be, at least, better than us, not far, far worse than the very worst of us.

Last edited by RickLannoye; 10-14-2009 at 02:01 PM.. Reason: Change fonts
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