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Old 10-14-2009, 08:41 AM
 
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I am not sure how to even start this topic, but I know that what I have been reading from the UR camp concerning Christians who believe that God will either send unbelievers to hell, or destroy them altogether as fear mongering fundamentalists and being called that is just plain wrong, and it is a lie.

They say we do not preach God's Love. This is also wrong. God's Love can be defined simply as Jesus Christ. His birth, ministry, sacrifice, and ressurection is the culmination of how much God loves us. By this, we can say He first loved us, because Jesus Christ was there from the beginning. God knew we would fall. He also had it already set up to redeem those who worship Him.

The fear of hell, or the fear of being destroyed is the by product to the proud person to whom the Spirit is convicting. Otherwise, why would they even have this fear? People who do not believe in God could care less about the after-life. Or if they believe there is an after-life, maybe they believe in another form.

Jesus said blessed are those who are poor in spirit. Those who mourn. Those who are gentle. Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Those who are merciful. Those who are pure in heart. Those who are peacemakers. Those who have been persecuted for righteousness' sake. Those who have been insulted and persecuted and spoken of as evil for speaking the Truth concerning Jesus.

Now, do those who truly believe and act in the above way, who are blessed, need to somehow come to a grip a fear, in order to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, and submit to Him as King? No, as they can see the love for what it is, as they live IN this love already. For them, Jesus is simply beautiful. In the totality of the creation, Jesus' name is lifted above everything. It is all about Him. We are blessed to even know this, and more blessed to follow Him.

Now, concerning when the Spirit convicts a person who is filled with evil thoughts, emotions and acts on them. We know them as the Word talks of them consistantly. They are: lovers of self (proud, egotistical), lovers of money (thieves, plunderers), boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, IRRECONCILABLE, malicious gossips, without self control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure RATHER than lovers of God, holding to a FORM of Godliness, although they have denied it's power.

When the Holy Spirit takes hold of someone who is described in the above paragraph, and the Gospel is preached to them,,,usually(myself included), fear is the first thing that grips them. They SEE for the first time, how seperated they really are from God. They are broken. Thier carnal spirit is torn completely down, and they fall on their knees in complete and utter fear of the Living God. They cry out for redemption. When it happened to me, I was and KNEW I WAS forgiven, from all the evil I had committed. I cried for days, basking in His Glorious Love.

The fear was GONE. Yes, my fear of reverence is, to this day, present. But my fear of punishment was gone, as Jesus paid the price for me. I desire to please God, and try to make myself a worthy servant to the Kingdom of Christ.

Some people hear preaching that is geared towards believers who have not truly converted from their sinful ways. Some people hear preaching that is done in the wrong way. Hellfire and brimstone types who sometimes do more harm than good. But the thing we all need to remember, is that God is doing the tugging at the hearts. He has those He is working on, at the place in life where they need to be. He is the potter, we are the clay.

So, for those of you who continue to lie about people, like myself, concerning the "fear" of God, and the preaching the Gospel,,,get the facts straight before lumping an entire group of believers into fear mongering radical fundamentalists. Otherwise, we can just call you a liar, for that is what you would be.

Peace.
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,709,605 times
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Quote:
The fear of hell, or the fear of being destroyed is the by product to the proud person to whom the Spirit is convicting. Otherwise, why would they even have this fear? People who do not believe in God could care less about the after-life. Or if they believe there is an after-life, maybe they believe in another form.
If hell (a place of endless suffering) would exist, we might assume that at least several men end up there. Now few people actually believe they will end up in hell - "hell are always the others". But some people might be afraid their beloved ones end up there as I was (though I never believe din hell). And if anybody would fullfill Christ command to love even our enemies he wouldn't even be able to bear the thought that his worst enemy would end up in hell.

In these modern times you can hardly make any rational person afraid about hell, too ridicilious is the thought that a just God had created such place, not to mention a God of love.

The point is, the doctrine of hell is blasphemous against God and Christ, it is against any common sense for justice. It turns millions away from God and makes the bible untrustworthy and God's love a contradiction in itself.

I personally have no moral objection against the doctrine of annihilation.

To torture anybody, be it mentally or physically forevermore to infinity is neither love nor justice.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,239 posts, read 20,001,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post

To torture anybody, be it mentally or physically forevermore to infinity is neither love nor justice.
Unless it's the God who calls us to love our enemies is doing the torturing of cause, then it's love and justice . How on earth did our minds stoop so low to consider torture as justice ?
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:33 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,456,235 times
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You cannot know sin if not for the law knowing you broke God's Law and He is angry but as you come to Him broken, contrite in spirit on bended knee knowing you are a sinner then and only then can the good news be appreciated, then and only then can the good news be heard, then and only then can the good news be received. He loves you and wants to pour His blessings on you but you must repent, turn from our wicked ways and embrace Him not for fear of hell but what He did so that we don't have to go there. Oh how He loves you and me.......Amen!
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,239 posts, read 20,001,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You cannot know sin if not for the law knowing you broke God's Law and He is angry but as you come to Him broken, contrite in spirit on bended knee knowing you are a sinner then and only then can the good news be appreciated, then and only then can the good news be heard, then and only then can the good news be received. He loves you and wants to pour His blessings on you but you must repent, turn from our wicked ways and embrace Him not for fear of hell but what He did so that we don't have to go there. Oh how He loves you and me.......Amen!
Sounds wonderfully religious Fundy, but that's all it is religious , but read how the gospel was received on the day of Pentecost.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

You see there is no fixed way of responding to the good news . These guys the word tells us gladly responded to the word(the good news)
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:56 AM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,453,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post

...but as you come to Him broken, contrite in spirit on bended knee knowing you are a sinner then and only then can the good news be appreciated, then and only then can the good news be heard, then and only then can the good news be received.

June hates to break it to ya, but she adamantly, adamantly disagrees.

-And thank goodness for that.


(But still has a 'soft spot' in her "just June" heart for ya, Fundamentalist!)
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:59 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,456,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June hates to break it to ya, but she adamantly, adamantly disagrees.

-And thank goodness for that.


(But still has a 'soft spot' in her "just June" heart for ya, Fundamentalist!)
That is ok June. I thought like you as well
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:05 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,456,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Sounds wonderfully religious Fundy, but that's all it is religious , but read how the gospel was received on the day of Pentecost.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

You see there is no fixed way of responding to the good news . These guys the word tells us gladly responded to the word(the good news)
With all due respect Pcamps your definition of "religious" is broad and that broadness crosses over into scripture. Being "religious" is being legalistic without love for God. I don't know anyone in this room like that. Your definition of religious is wrong.

The Holy Spirit was received on the day of pentecost. The ones who received it were humbled by the gospel already. You got the cart before the horse. Yes there is a fixed way-being humbled-The Apostle Paul said, He would not know sin if not for the law, the Apostle Paul said, the law killed him, the Apostle Paul said, the law drives the sinner to the foot of the cross on bended knees when this happens then and only then are they ready to hear grace.

Jesus never gave the gospel of grace to the proud.

Law to the proud and grace to the humble.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-14-2009 at 10:18 AM..
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,046,369 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I am not sure how to even start this topic, but I know that what I have been reading from the UR camp concerning Christians who believe that God will either send unbelievers to hell, or destroy them altogether as fear mongering fundamentalists and being called that is just plain wrong, and it is a lie.

They say we do not preach God's Love. This is also wrong. God's Love can be defined simply as Jesus Christ. His birth, ministry, sacrifice, and ressurection is the culmination of how much God loves us. By this, we can say He first loved us, because Jesus Christ was there from the beginning. God knew we would fall. He also had it already set up to redeem those who worship Him.

The fear of hell, or the fear of being destroyed is the by product to the proud person to whom the Spirit is convicting. Otherwise, why would they even have this fear? People who do not believe in God could care less about the after-life. Or if they believe there is an after-life, maybe they believe in another form.

Jesus said blessed are those who are poor in spirit. Those who mourn. Those who are gentle. Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Those who are merciful. Those who are pure in heart. Those who are peacemakers. Those who have been persecuted for righteousness' sake. Those who have been insulted and persecuted and spoken of as evil for speaking the Truth concerning Jesus.

Now, do those who truly believe and act in the above way, who are blessed, need to somehow come to a grip a fear, in order to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, and submit to Him as King? No, as they can see the love for what it is, as they live IN this love already. For them, Jesus is simply beautiful. In the totality of the creation, Jesus' name is lifted above everything. It is all about Him. We are blessed to even know this, and more blessed to follow Him.

Now, concerning when the Spirit convicts a person who is filled with evil thoughts, emotions and acts on them. We know them as the Word talks of them consistantly. They are: lovers of self (proud, egotistical), lovers of money (thieves, plunderers), boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, IRRECONCILABLE, malicious gossips, without self control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure RATHER than lovers of God, holding to a FORM of Godliness, although they have denied it's power.

When the Holy Spirit takes hold of someone who is described in the above paragraph, and the Gospel is preached to them,,,usually(myself included), fear is the first thing that grips them. They SEE for the first time, how seperated they really are from God. They are broken. Thier carnal spirit is torn completely down, and they fall on their knees in complete and utter fear of the Living God. They cry out for redemption. When it happened to me, I was and KNEW I WAS forgiven, from all the evil I had committed. I cried for days, basking in His Glorious Love.

The fear was GONE. Yes, my fear of reverence is, to this day, present. But my fear of punishment was gone, as Jesus paid the price for me. I desire to please God, and try to make myself a worthy servant to the Kingdom of Christ.

Some people hear preaching that is geared towards believers who have not truly converted from their sinful ways. Some people hear preaching that is done in the wrong way. Hellfire and brimstone types who sometimes do more harm than good. But the thing we all need to remember, is that God is doing the tugging at the hearts. He has those He is working on, at the place in life where they need to be. He is the potter, we are the clay.

So, for those of you who continue to lie about people, like myself, concerning the "fear" of God, and the preaching the Gospel,,,get the facts straight before lumping an entire group of believers into fear mongering radical fundamentalists. Otherwise, we can just call you a liar, for that is what you would be.

Peace.
Amen....HotinAz! I too do not fear. When you have repented and have the assurance of Christ Jesus in your heart, there is no fear. Perfect love casts out fear. Where there is fear there is torment. What torments the soul, but sin.

Every thing you have said in this post is the heart of one who walks in the Spirit of God. Their love is for the sinner to repent and not to appease. It is not easy to speak to a sinner and share with them the truth of where they stand in their life with out God.

But it is easy to share with someone that the life they are living is OK, because God is love and He loves them. Which is true!!! Yet one does need God and in order to come to Him they need to repent of their ways, sin and walk in the will, forgiven of God, away from their life of sin to inherit the Kingdom of God or be eternally separated from Him.
Now is the day of salvation.....not tomorrow or after you die, it is today!
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Old 10-14-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,239 posts, read 20,001,723 times
Reputation: 2108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
With all due respect Pcamps your definition of "religious" is broad and that broadness crosses over into scripture. Being "religious" is being legalistic without love for God. I don't know anyone in this room like that. Your definition of religious is wrong.

The Holy Spirit was received on the day of pentecost. The ones who received it were humbled by the gospel already. You got the cart before the horse. Yes there is a fixed way-being humbled-The Apostle Paul said, He would not know sin if not for the law, the Apostle Paul said, the law killed him, the Apostle Paul said, the law drives the sinner to the foot of the cross on bended knees when this happens then and only then are they ready to hear grace.

Jesus never gave the gospel of grace to the proud.

Law to the proud and grace to the humble.
Fundy that's all i believe Fundamentalist's possess, is religion.

No cart before the horse whatsover Fundy they believed the good news with gladness , their hearts were pricked the scriptures tells in the account of the day of pentecost.

Having their hearts pricked as described in Acts 2 meant nothing of the sought of which you said in your post i responded to.

The Holy Spirit had convicted them that Jesus the one they had crucified really was the Messiah , and when they asked Peter what they should and Peter told them and verse 41 tells us they received it gladly.

Please do not Put God in a box and say this is the only way to come
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