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Old 10-20-2009, 12:05 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,226,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
a moot point...
That would be the last words of Jesus to Saint Paul.
Thats not our topic here, so it's moot.

If you check my statement was about the last words of Jesus to the Lost as he commands them into the flame of Hells ever burning fire...

I believe that Jesus quotes the same verse I quoted in the Old test.
You can check it out, but Im more or less sure I got the same verse Jesus had in mind in his "I never knew you" statement....

What is intersesting to me is that you say "the last words of Jesus" ... First of all what makes you think these are the last words of Jesus?

Again fundamentalism never ceases to amaze me, because when Jesus speaks of this he is referring to the judgment of nations ... Fundamentalists like to talk about how believers and unbelievers are judged on two separate occasions, yet they use the words Christ speaks at this judgment to describe the fate of the "damned". Notice that this judgment to which Christ refers is over both sheep and goat nations at the same time. It seems to me that fundamentalists like to mix up these three judgments when it suits their interpretation of scripture. This is a clue which should lead you to discerning that this judgment is not a personal judgment of individuals but of nations as a whole. Or is this the great white throne judgment? Or is this the judgment seat of Christ?

Maybe you should research a little more in order to differentiate between these three judgments?

Just a suggestion.
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Old 10-20-2009, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 847,288 times
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It seems that some here believe they and their gang are the only true Christians. They are right so they don't need to study anything, just repeat what they've been told. Since they are right in their own eyes, stubbornness is a virtue to them. The facts confuse them. Besides, it's too much work for them to read anything more than a couple of sentences long.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,307,000 times
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AIONIOS - Everlasting

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting (AIONIOS) God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Is God everlasting...or is He "age lasting" as the UR camp proposes?

Matt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal (AIONIOS) life?

Matt 1:26 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting (AIONIOS) life.

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

Is eternal life only "age lasting" as the UR camp proposes?
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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AIDIOS - Everlasting

AIONIOS - Everlasting

AIDIOS is rooted in AEI
AIONIOS is rooted in AION

AION is rooted in AEI

All of the above are rooted in AEI

AIE - perpetually, incessantly, invariably, at any and every time: when according to the circumstances something is or ought to be done again

AIDIOS is used only in two places with reference to God/Angels in Romans 1:20 and Jude 1:6
AIONIOS is used 71 times in the New Testament in reference to the destination of human beings.

AION is AGE - in reference to the OLD covenant age

Hebrew thought is very much different than that of the Greek.
If the UR camp could just get around the importation of English into the Greek, or even the Hebrew, it would not err. As the early creeds have been for over two thousand plus years when it came to the prophetic scripture of eschatology. This error is nothing short of the flesh, and the importation of the flesh into the understanding of the eternal power and everlasting qualities of what God has accomplished with His Son.

My friends here that are in the UR camp...you all believe Christ is the savior of mankind. This is where you triumph. But where you fail is your understanding of the Hebrew saints of the first century. Spare me the texts of the early church fathers and Josephus. Josephus was a first century Jack Van Impe and the early church fathers never spent enough time on the prophetic word of the end times, becasue they could not get past the flesh in interpreting the difference between the spiritual and flesh, thus they erred in almost every interpretation of the fulfillments of the prophetic scripture. All scripture has been fulfilled. Nothing is left but the continual, perpetual blessings of those that come to Christ. Nothing. Believe in Christ or be separated from God, eternally after this life.

Gehenna, Lake of Fire, Burning Flame and Hades were all relative to the Old Covenant and Jewish people. Christ and the apostles used AIONIOS to dentote everlasting and eternal in relation to the Old Covenant which did have an end, therefore it would have only been proper for those speaking and for those listening so that what they were directing their discourses at were properly understood to be the Old Covenant/Israel Nation.

AIONIOS was relative only to the Old Covenant, and the transitional period between 30 AD and 70 AD dealing with humankind, who does indeed have a definite end or age, and the writers of the scripture wanted to denote their lesser qualities and nature than that is of the heavenlies. When the writeres were directing their attention to God, the use of AIDIOS was used, although seldom, it was used.

AIONIOS - man
AIDIOS - God

DIOS - Spanish/Latin - God

After reading much on the Universal Reconciliation doctrine, I have come to conlude that they, just like the early chruch fathers, are having a hard time separating the fleshly desires from the spiritual blessings so that all mankind will be saved, whether they die in sin or not. I feel sorry for some here, like you Ironmaw, where you have lost your brother to suicide, and others that have lost their firends and family that have not come to Christ. This is painful, as I have lost some very close frinds that were not in Christ. These things are tough to deal with, and it is through Christ where we will overcome these things of the flesh. God bless you all.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 10-20-2009 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,307,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
It seems that some here believe they and their gang are the only true Christians. They are right so they don't need to study anything, just repeat what they've been told. Since they are right in their own eyes, stubbornness is a virtue to them. The facts confuse them. Besides, it's too much work for them to read anything more than a couple of sentences long.
What say you? Are you the only true Christian?

forever and ever

aionas ton aionon
"ages of the ages"

Eternal - without end Eternal Damnation

"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).

". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

What say you James Rhoades...is Christ or God for that matter only reigning for an age? Or Forever?

Will the Devil be redeemed back into Christ, grafted in as well?
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:41 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,226,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
AIONIOS - Everlasting

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting (AIONIOS) God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Is God everlasting...or is He "age lasting" as the UR camp proposes?
Hi Sciotamicks ... Well God is both age-lasting and everlasting. If god is everlasting then he surely is age-lasting as well.

But i think you misunderstand what aionios means in this verse as universal reconciliationists understand it ... Remember we understand aionios to mean pertaining to the ages or of the ages, which changes according to the context. What remeains the same about the word is that it refers to the ages, either as age abiding, or age lasting or in relation to the ages.

The aionios God is , in other words, the God of the ages ...



Quote:
Matt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal (AIONIOS) life?
Aionios zoe here is the same as it is in every other berse wherein it is found. It is the life that all will have at the end of time, given to those of us that believe here and now in the ages. It represents the wuality oif ;life we have in Christ and not the duration of life we will have after the resurrection which is denoted by the word aphthartos ....

Quote:
Matt 1:26 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting (AIONIOS) life.
Same as above ...


Quote:
Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Same as above ... We will be take part in the first resurrection and age during life, to reign with Christ and judge the nations and the fallen angels.
Quote:
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Same as above ...

Quote:
Is eternal life only "age lasting" as the UR camp proposes?
Again the answer to this is the same as given above ... Yes it is age lasting and will be everlasting but aionios zoe does not refer to quantity or duration of life that is described by the use of the word aphthartos ... Aionios Zoe the quality of life we have knowing God and his christ whom he sent in the ages.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:43 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,226,652 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What say you? Are you the only true Christian?

forever and ever

aionas ton aionon
"ages of the ages"

Eternal - without end Eternal Damnation

"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).

". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

What say you James Rhoades...is Christ or God for that matter only reigning for an age? Or Forever?

Will the Devil be redeemed back into Christ, grafted in as well?

Hi Sciotamicks ... haven't you read any of the posts i have made answering all these things already in this thread? Do you care to respond to them?
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,307,000 times
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Ironmaw,

It can't be both. What appears in the UR camp is alot of having your cake and eating it too.

They all denote everlasting...hence AEI
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,307,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Hi Sciotamicks ... haven't you read any of the posts i have made answering all these things already in this thread? Do you care to respond to them?
Yes I have...I don't agree with any of them....Ironmaw...you are somewhere in the middle of futurist and preterist. This is your first and final error, just like the early church fathers.....the inability from separating the flesh from the heavenly/spiritual.

Once you embrace Full Preterism, none of this will make sense to you anymore. None of it. It will be a bunch of scriptural gymnastics and verbal jargon, that has no real foundation, and is contrary to the message of the enitre word of God.

Sorry brother. I didn't buy it to begin with, although noble of a cause, but nontheless, of the flesh, and I don't buy it now after reading your, katonjj, and every paper I got my hands on in the last week. The desire for our loved ones to be saved in Christ no matter what they did here on earth is contrary to any and every teaching in the Word. It isn't damnable for you, but it is for the person who lives as he pleases.

Sin and death have been defeated for those in Christ. Christ took care of both of them for us.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:49 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,432,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
is Christ or God for that matter only reigning for an age? Or Forever?

My 2 cents:

God is eonian, meaning He pertains to the eons, and continues on through the eons. He created the eons, He frames the eons, He interacts with eons, He is the Rock of the Ages and the God of the Ages, therefore He can be rightfully called the eonian God.

Does that mean God dies when the eons end? NO of course not, because elsewhere we are also told that God is endless, God is immortal, and God will not die.


You asked: does Christ reign forever? NO He does not. Christ reigns UNTIL all enemies are defeated, and the last enemy to be defeated is death. If Christ nevers stops reigining, then death will never be defeated.

1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.


All will be subject to God, even the Son. The only one who reigns then is God, because God is all in all.
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