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Old 01-28-2010, 10:14 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,111,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messianic Jew A Long Time View Post
Yes, yes my friend! I also agree with you! The Bible teaches that the lost will be "destroyed" - not tortured forever! The lost soul is not immortal, because immortality comes only through the gospel (2 Tim 1:10) This is called "Conditional Immortality" and there is a great site on this Why Conditional Immortality is true and biblical jewishnotgreek.com

Hope this helps!
Thank you for the link!!!! I agree with this post.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,534 posts, read 31,936,781 times
Reputation: 9415
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipidydoodaa View Post
i was reading in another thread where the lake of fire was mention, having questions and not wanting to highjack the other thread, thought i would ask the questions in a new thread. i want to take them one at a time for clarity to each:

i read in Rev20:
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

would it be safe to assume that the lake of fire is where the eternal punishment will take place?
Yes. Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It does not mean that the fire is everlasting, it means that the punishement is also everlasting.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,122,352 times
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What is "eternal life"? Is it a gigantic city up in heaven? Let's see what the scripture says, shall we:

John 17:3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

So here in Jesus words...eternal life is nothing more than knowing God and Jesus Christ, therefore, eternal death must mean NOT knowing God and Jesus Christ.

The life Jesus speaks of is in the here and now....not something to be accomplished later on....WAKE UP PEOPLE AND READ THE WORDS OF YOUR SAVIOR!!!

We either are experiencing the life of Christ, which is abundant life, now or we are experiencing "hell", which is no life, now.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:41 PM
 
34 posts, read 36,118 times
Reputation: 24
Default Death means not alive...

Yes, but eternal life INCLUDES immortality as a gift! You cannot leave out that part.



* To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:7)

Notice Paul uses the word "seek" when speaking of immortality and everlasting life. None of these attributes he lists here are inherent to mankind. If they were, then the word "seek" would clearly be out of place. Again, Paul did not believe the Greek philosophers who taught the immortality of all souls, neither did Yeshua (Jesus)...

* I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:51)

Again, why would Jesus Himself make this plain offer to "LIVE FOREVER" if everyone lived forever?

It is important to note that in Hebrew, the word for 'soul' (nehphesh) is never used in conjunction with the word "everlasting" in Tenach (The Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament).

Likewise, in the New Testament writings, the word for 'soul' (psukee) is never used in conjunction with the words 'eternal' or 'everlasting'.

Again it is an assumption (based upon Greek philosophy) that the soul of mankind is eternal and can never be destroyed. It is destroyed according to Matthew 10:28. Death means something that is not functioning anymore.

We have eternal life and that is knowing God. When unbelievers face the second death they will not function anymore in body or soul. Jesus uses the term "Both" when He says Both will be destroyed. (Matt 10:28)

Check out information on the Biblical doctrine of "Conditional Immortality" www.jewishnotgreek.com
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,122,352 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messianic Jew A Long Time View Post
Yes, but eternal life INCLUDES immortality as a gift! You cannot leave out that part.



* To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:7)

Notice Paul uses the word "seek" when speaking of immortality and everlasting life. None of these attributes he lists here are inherent to mankind. If they were, then the word "seek" would clearly be out of place. Again, Paul did not believe the Greek philosophers who taught the immortality of all souls, neither did Yeshua (Jesus)...

* I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:51)

Again, why would Jesus Himself make this plain offer to "LIVE FOREVER" if everyone lived forever?

It is important to note that in Hebrew, the word for 'soul' (nehphesh) is never used in conjunction with the word "everlasting" in Tenach (The Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament).

Likewise, in the New Testament writings, the word for 'soul' (psukee) is never used in conjunction with the words 'eternal' or 'everlasting'.

Again it is an assumption (based upon Greek philosophy) that the soul of mankind is eternal and can never be destroyed. It is destroyed according to Matthew 10:28. Death means something that is not functioning anymore.

We have eternal life and that is knowing God. When unbelievers face the second death they will not function anymore in body or soul. Jesus uses the term "Both" when He says Both will be destroyed. (Matt 10:28)

Check out information on the Biblical doctrine of "Conditional Immortality" www.jewishnotgreek.com
I know all about that and you missed the point I was attempting to make. So many place their main FOCUS on what will happen after physical death.....THEY MISS THE "LIFE" THAT JESUS GAVE US TO LIVE IN THE HERE AND NOW!
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:55 PM
 
5,739 posts, read 4,589,424 times
Reputation: 4161
and how is this "good news"?




Does the Father make mistakes?
Is His love so pitiful, so weak, so lacking power...
that it would be necessary for some to be "annihilated?"

Unthinkable.


No. It is not good news for even ONE human being to be annihilated.

Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL mankind.

mankind. THE WHOLE of humanity.

As in Adam, all die.
So in Christ shall all live.

peace.

off to work...
have a nice day.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:15 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,041 times
Reputation: 892
[quote=Messianic Jew A Long Time;12667402]
Quote:
Yes, but eternal life INCLUDES immortality as a gift! You cannot leave out that part.



* To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:7)
Young's Literal Translation
to those, indeed, who in continuance of a good work, do seek glory, and honour, and incorruptibility -- life age-during;


To those who seek incorruptibility(immortality) God will give life pertaining to the ages(aionios zoe) ... Life pertaining to the ages(aionios zoe) is the quality of life we have at liberty in Christ.

Young's Literal Translation
and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send -- Jesus Christ;


Romans 2:7 would be redundant if immortality and eternal life meant the same thing in that verse ... Yes those who have life age during will also receive immortality, but these are two different things.

Quote:
Notice Paul uses the word "seek" when speaking of immortality and everlasting life. None of these attributes he lists here are inherent to mankind. If they were, then the word "seek" would clearly be out of place. Again, Paul did not believe the Greek philosophers who taught the immortality of all souls, neither did Yeshua (Jesus)...

* I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:51)
Young's Literal Translation
'I am the living bread that came down out of the heaven; if any one may eat of this bread he shall live -- to the age; and the bread also that I will give is my flesh, that I will give for the life of the world.'

Quote:
Again, why would Jesus Himself make this plain offer to "LIVE FOREVER" if everyone lived forever?

It is important to note that in Hebrew, the word for 'soul' (nehphesh) is never used in conjunction with the word "everlasting" in Tenach (The Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament).

Likewise, in the New Testament writings, the word for 'soul' (psukee) is never used in conjunction with the words 'eternal' or 'everlasting'.

Again it is an assumption (based upon Greek philosophy) that the soul of mankind is eternal and can never be destroyed. It is destroyed according to Matthew 10:28. Death means something that is not functioning anymore.

We have eternal life and that is knowing God. When unbelievers face the second death they will not function anymore in body or soul. Jesus uses the term "Both" when He says Both will be destroyed. (Matt 10:28)

Check out information on the Biblical doctrine of "Conditional Immortality" www.jewishnotgreek.com

I agree that souls are not immortal ... I disagree that aionion zoe means eternal life ...
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,291,776 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I disagree that aionion zoe means eternal life ...
Then what does it mean to you?
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,291,776 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I know all about that and you missed the point I was attempting to make. So many place their main FOCUS on what will happen after physical death.....THEY MISS THE "LIFE" THAT JESUS GAVE US TO LIVE IN THE HERE AND NOW!

You are absolutely right Christy...is it me, or are we agreeing again

With that life though, we never suffer death, as those that do without Christ, unfortunately, but that is our purpose, is to help bring those people back into the covenant that was lost in Adam.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:47 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,041 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Then what does it mean to you?
It believe it means "Life of the ages" ... Those who have life of the ages will also have immortality, but one is a measurement of the quality of life, the other a measurement of longevity. Aionios life is being at liberty in Christ. We have "the life of the ages"(aionios zoe) right now, but we are not yet immortal.
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