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Old 01-30-2010, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
It believe it means "Life of the ages" ... Those who have life of the ages will also have immortality, but one is a measurement of the quality of life, the other a measurement of longevity. Aionios life is being at liberty in Christ. We have "the life of the ages"(aionios zoe) right now, but we are not yet immortal.
So you believe in the IBD (individual body death) view?
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
So you believe in the IBD (individual body death) view?
I don't even know what that means ...
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I don't even know what that means ...

There are two views:

Corporate Body and Individual Body

Coporate Body believes that at the moment of salvation, we are clothed with the incorruptible body.

Individual Body believes that we are clothed with the incorruptible at death.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 01-30-2010 at 11:26 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
There are two views:

Corporate Body and Individual Body

Coporate Body believes that at the moment of salvation, we are clothed with the incorruptible body.

Individual Body believes that we are clothed with the incorruptible at death.
Then according to you explanation of the two above, i believe neither ... I believe we will be clothed with incorruption at the time of the resurrection of the dead. Paul certainly had not put on incorruption when he wrote 1Cr 15:53 ...



1Cr 15:53
lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed:
for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;
and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;
where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'
and the sting of the death [is] the sin, and the power of the sin the law;
and to God -- thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ;
so that, my brethren beloved, become ye stedfast, unmovable, abounding in the work of the Lord at all times, knowing that your labour is not vain in the Lord.


Here he is speaking of how not all believers will suffer death, but some will change in the blink of an eye. The mortal corruptible body will be come an immortal and incorruptible body. When we are clothed upon by these spiritual raiment's we will no longer experience being in bondage to the law of sin and death in the members of our bodies as we do now ... That is to say we will no longer experience fleshly carnal temptation or the sin from when it derives in our own lives.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Then according to you explanation of the two above, i believe neither ... I believe we will be clothed with incorruption at the time of the resurrection of the dead. Paul certainly had not put on incorruption when he wrote 1Cr 15:53 ...



1Cr 15:53
lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed:
for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;
and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;
where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?'
and the sting of the death [is] the sin, and the power of the sin the law;
and to God -- thanks, to Him who is giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ;
so that, my brethren beloved, become ye stedfast, unmovable, abounding in the work of the Lord at all times, knowing that your labour is not vain in the Lord.


Here he is speaking of how not all believers will suffer death, but some will change in the blink of an eye. The mortal corruptible body will be come an immortal and incorruptible body. When we are clothed upon by these spiritual raiment's we will no longer experience being in bondage to the law of sin and death in the members of our bodies as we do now ... That is to say we will no longer experience fleshly carnal temptation or the sin from when it derives in our own lives.
Ironmaw.. Do you believe that you can see Good without Evil to compare it to?
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Then according to you explanation of the two above, i believe neither ... I believe we will be clothed with incorruption at the time of the resurrection of the dead. Paul certainly had not put on incorruption when he wrote 1Cr 15:53 ...

Here he is speaking of how not all believers will suffer death, but some will change in the blink of an eye. The mortal corruptible body will be come an immortal and incorruptible body. When we are clothed upon by these spiritual raiment's we will no longer experience being in bondage to the law of sin and death in the members of our bodies as we do now ... That is to say we will no longer experience fleshly carnal temptation or the sin from when it derives in our own lives.

Of course he is. And he did put on the incorruptible at the resurrection, after he died. That was what he was expecting to happen....soon, at hand....right around the corner.

I take the Corporate Body View. The resurrection already took place.
So when I got saved, I was given my spiritual body, so that I, can come to God, in complete communion with Him, and he sees no sin, just Christ's blood. That is the big difference between you and me. You can't do that, if there was no resurrection yet. You aren't justified to enter into His presence spiritually. Too bad.

But guess what? Since I believe you are wrong, you can enter into His holy place with Him, you just don't know it yet.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Ironmaw.. Do you believe that you can see Good without Evil to compare it to?
I do not believe that you can know Good without evil. However, i do not believe the experience of evil must last for ever in order for us to always appreciate what is Good. I believe that the scriptures teach that once Gods purpose for allowing evil(the works of the devil) to exist is accomplished, it(they) will be done away with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Of course he is. And he did put on the incorruptible at the resurrection, after he died. That was what he was expecting to happen....soon, at hand....right around the corner.

I take the Corporate Body View. The resurrection already took place.
So when I got saved, I was given my spiritual body, so that I, can come to God, in complete communion with Him, and he sees no sin, just Christ's blood. That is the big difference between you and me. You can't do that, if there was no resurrection yet. You aren't justified to enter into His presence spiritually. Too bad.

But guess what? Since I believe you are wrong, you can enter into His holy place with Him, you just don't know it yet.


That is easily proven false with by personal experience, i know i still sin and i know that i will most likely die, that is the very meaning of being corrupt. Romans 7 clearly teaches that though our minds have been renewed by the spirit of God and is currently subject to the law of God, nevertheless our bodies are corrupt and sin exists within the very members of our body ...

Rom 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I go by my convictions and by my experience, along with how i believe the spirit to be leading me. The fruits of ones beliefs reveal the nature of their belief system.

Before i came to understand what i do now i was miserable ... I was ruled by fear for my own soul and fear for all those that i love. I was under condemnation and because of that i viewed the world in condemnation and had no hope for most of the people in the world.

The personal evidences which validates for me my own beliefs are the hope i have now for all people, and for the whole creation, that all things will be reconciled to God in on earh and in heaven, and that all evil will cease to exist for everyone, and the love i now feel for everyone i meet without frear that my love for them is vanity because they will be forever lost. Sense i have come to understand these things i have been set free in my heart to truly love, and in my mind to truly believe and have hope without fear and without condemnation. For the first time in the thirty years of my being of the household of faith i understand what it means to be at liberty in Christ. Neither the teaching of full preterism, nor the doctrine of eternal damnation offer these things. Full preterism teaches evil and sin will always exist and hold sway/power over all things in this world, so there is no hope for a better world tomorrow or a day when Gods will is truly done on earth as it is in heaven, and eternal damnation teaches evil will exist forever and win the victory over most of Gods creation in the end, making it impossible to live without fear for ones own self or for those that one loves. Eternal damnation and full preterism in my opinion make the word of God to little or no effect, in the earth and in the minds of men.

Selah ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-30-2010 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
That is easily proven false with by personal experience, i know i still sin and i know that i will most likely die, that is the very meaning of being corrupt. Romans 7 clearly teaches that though our minds have been renewed by the spirit of God and is currently subject to the law of God, nevertheless our bodies are corrupt and sin exists within the very members of our body ...
This is true. But that sin you harbor in your members has been paid for, and God does not see it. You are spotless to Him, because of the very scripture you quoted:

Rom 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Death is in sin, and sin is the strength of the law. There will always be sin and death Ironmaw, just as there will always be good and bad, as you see in Revelation 21 and what is outside of the New Jerusalem, post God being all in all....what do you make of that?

If the bad things in our existence is done away with in the New Heavens and New Earth, how do you interpret:

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Your belief system of sin and death being eradicted for the whole human race is flawed, based on these very scirptures alone.
How do you feel about that?
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:44 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,198,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
This is true. But that sin you harbor in your members has been paid for, and God does not see it. You are spotless to Him, because of the very scripture you quoted:

Rom 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Death is in sin, and sin is the strength of the law. There will always be sin and death Ironmaw, just as there will always be good and bad, as you see in Revelation 21 and what is outside of the New Jerusalem, post God being all in all....what do you make of that?

If the bad things in our existence is done away with in the New Heavens and New Earth, how do you interpret:

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Your belief system of sin and death being eradicted for the whole human race is flawed, based on these very scirptures alone.
How do you feel about that?
I disagree with your interpretation as you well know. I do not believe that the eradication of evil is in disharmony with scritpures as you apparently do.

Eventually all things will be reconciled to harmony with God. There will no longer be anyone on the outside, because God will be in all, and there will be no more curse upon anything. How can there still be sinners and suffering and evil in the universe and it be said that there is no curse upon anything?

The physical world we live in is under the curse of death, the whole creation groans to be set from into the liberty of the sons of God. The only way that it will ever be said truly that there is no longer any curse upon anything will be when the greatest curse of all which is the curse of sin and death is destroyed completely. In my opinion there are many things you do not take under consideration which is why your exegesis and hermeneutic are flawed. Almost everything you believe in must conform to your belief in full preterism. You interpret everything to line up with full preterism instead of trying to make everything line up with the Gospel itself which is the victory of Christ over sin an death in all things.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I disagree with your interpretation as you well know. I do not believe that the eradication of evil is in disharmony with scritpures as you apparently do.

Eventually all things will be reconciled to harmony with God. There will no longer be anyone on the outside, because God will be in all, and there will be no more curse upon anything. How can there still be sinners and suffering and evil in the universe and it be said that there is no curse upon anything?

The physical world we live in is under the curse of death, the whole creation groans to be set from into the liberty of the sons of God. The only way that it will ever be said truly that there is no longer any curse upon anything will be when the greatest curse of all which is the curse of sin and death is destroyed completely. In my opinion there are many things you do not take under consideration which is why your exegesis and hermeneutic are flawed. Almost everything you believe in must conform to your belief in full preterism. You interpret everything to line up with full preterism instead of trying to make everything line up with the Gospel itself which is the victory of Christ over sin an death in all things.
Again, so you choose not to explain why there are sinners in the New Heaven and Earth....murderers too?
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