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Old 12-23-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: southern california
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i dont think they were literally describing real estate in hell, i think they are poetic means of describing punishment for wrongdoing.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:32 PM
 
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No matter how clearly the truth concerning the eternal condemnation of the lost is presented, there will always be those who deny it. Even though Christ Himself stated it in no uncertain terms. Matthew 25:41,46. And Revelation 20:11-15 states it plainly. Yet there are those who will not believe. There are those who will continue to deny the awful reality of the eternal lake of fire. But some will listen, and understand, and believe.
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:39 PM
 
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Why do you think God doesn't save those in the lake of fire?
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:24 AM
 
Location: Germany
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A biblical examination on the topics mentioned:

biblical studies: What Is The Soul?

biblical studies: The Soul and the Unseen

biblical studies: The Gehenna of Fire

biblical studies: The Judgment of the Nations

biblical studies: The Lake of Fire
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:02 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,471,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No matter how clearly the truth concerning the eternal condemnation of the lost is presented, there will always be those who deny it. Even though Christ Himself stated it in no uncertain terms. Matthew 25:41,46. And Revelation 20:11-15 states it plainly. Yet there are those who will not believe. There are those who will continue to deny the awful reality of the eternal lake of fire. But some will listen, and understand, and believe.
Mike, The Bibles says nothing of "eternal condemnation."

Matthew 25:41,46 is for NATIONS like Africa or Russia or Iraq that, in the future when Christ's brethren go through the great tribulation, are treated badly. Christ then comes back and judges them as to how they treated His brethren. That judgment, rather than being "eternal" is actually AIONIOS or EONIAN which is an adjective describing to us that chastening which is pertaining to the specific eon which, rather than being eternal, is 1000 years.

Revelation 20:11-15 likewise says nothing about "eternal condemnation." All judgments occur within the eons/age times.

There are those who will continue to deny the wonderful reality of the eonian lake of fire. But some will listen, and understand, and believe.
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:59 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is one erroneous conclusion that the author has arrived at that I must point out. In the third paragraph, in which Sheol or Hades is being addressed, the author mistakenly believes that at the time of Christ's resurrection many of the old Testament saints were resurrected into their immortal bodies at that same time. This is in connection with Matthew 27:51-53. The reality of the event described in Matthew 27:51-53 is that at the time of Christ's death (not resurrection) many Old Testament saints were resuscitated in their mortal bodies only to die again at some later date, just as was the case when Jesus rususcitated Lazarus. Other than this mistaken conclusion of the author, the article is very good and accurate.
By any chance are there any bones of the Old Testament saints have been found to somehow confirm that these saints were not resurrected but resuscitated in their mortal bodies and had died again?

I would believe the Bible when it is written that they were resurrected because then, that would be alot of OT saints walking around in bearing witness of Him, waiting for their time die again. Surely they would have time to write. Jesus being the firstfruits of those that have slept and leading the captive from captivity would strongly suggests that Christ took the resurrected saints to Heaven when He had ascended mayhap the first time since He had told Mary not to touch Him for He had to ascend to the Father and then He appeared again.

This would explain how some of the believers were overthrown in their faith when they heard that the resurrection had already passed, but it was not the resurrection Jesus was talking about as it involves sitting down with the OT saints in the Kingdom of God as promised to the disciples.

Anyway... this is the first I have heard of the OT saints just being resuscitated. Any OT saints relaid in the graves from which they had sprung?

Or does not the absence of OT saints in their graves proves that there was a resurrection?

Matthew 27:52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
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Old 12-24-2009, 06:10 PM
 
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You would not want to see it even in a vision of hell through The Lord God. The horror would be overwhelming. All believers and unbelievers will see the lake of fire on the Judgement day. And the Lord God will wipe away their tears. Pray for the lost
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Germany
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Quote:
All believers and unbelievers will see the lake of fire on the Judgement day.
reminds me to the Koran, are you Muslim?
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:16 PM
 
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Default Not alive forever in lake of fire. The Bible is clear on that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The word of God makes it clear in Revelation 20:14-15 that the Lake of fire is the second death. In Revelation 14:11 it makes it clear that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night.' That means they are conscious in the lake of fire forever.
Read it very carefully. It clearly says "the smoke" will rise forever. Smoke rising forever is much different than torment going on forever. John is using the biblical expression of 'smoke rising' to describe how people of remember an important incident. Today we take pictures and video of our enemies being bombed and their city set on fire and play it over and over a hundred times, but back then the enemies of God were destroyed and it was over. There was no video to review over and over again back then. The preservation of smoke was the only way for them to remember the great event. Look how John speaks of Babylon's destruction... "And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up forever and ever." (Revelation 19:3) One day Babylon will be destroyed and even in heaven we will never forget God's destruction of that city. That is what is meant by smoke rising forever.

The "no resting day or night" occurs while they are "bowing" and "worshipping" (present tense) the beast. This occurs during the time on earth when the book of Revelation events are being unfolded. These are people who are forced to receive the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16). John also tells us that painful sores break out on their body. "…and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." (Revelation 16:2) This is while they are on the earth.


In Rev. 14:11 apostle John writes this word "proskuneo" (worship/bowing) in the Greek present tense. The present tense is the tense he chooses to use to describe the rest of the events of Revelation that occur on the earth. So this must be while on earth since it is in the same Greek tense. Look at verse 9 in which the unsaved "worship" (also in the Greek present tense) the beast "and receive his mark". This is very important because it clearly occurs while on this earth. So if the receiving of this mark (whatever it may be) is on this earth by living human beings, then the worshipping in 14:11 must also be on this earth. Hence, the "no rest day or night" must occur on this earth as well.


As for the devil, beast and false prophet - they are not humans. For humans, the lake of fire means cremation! Death in body and soul (see Matthew 10:28)


See Why Conditional Immortality is true and biblical for more info on Conditional Immortality

Be well.
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