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Old 10-16-2009, 08:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
(and I think this is about the 4th time I have tried to point this out to you....So far my attempts have all the reaction as BBs bouncing off a brick wall)
I killed the topic?
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,629,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Of course i stand behind it, perhaps my memory of the story is flawed. But if i remember correctly what i said was accurate. But in the other Gospels where this "apparently the same" story is told, it is written that it was Simon the lepers house. What is your point?
Hi Ironmaw, I love you - just consider the possibility. Maybe it will change your mind. I'm out to persuade not to disquade (is that a word?). Anyway, I try to show a side as to how I believe it is. I'm just confident in it - its not a contest to me. I fully except that people will not believe that Lazarus that was raised is the same lazarus that is spoken of in Lazarus and the Rich man.

Paul
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I killed the topic?
No, still here. Great topic, your doing fine Alan, just love each other. We will sort this out or not. At the end of the day we will all have a bit more information at the very least.

Paul
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Florida
580 posts, read 632,167 times
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I apologize to all for this post. I was so incorrect about Judgement. I have posted about judgement on another thread. With the necessarry scriptures.

The Lord had given me through bible study with my son, some scripture and insight into this subject to remember.
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Jesus said he would never leave us nor forsake us. No one has seen the Father, only Jesus.
So we will be with Jesus after bodily death from this world, but not yet to the Father untill all is fulfilled by the Father.
On this earth when we recieve our Savior, we have crossed from death to life. the Holy Spirit testifies to this in us.
Also the proof of the transfiguation of Christ, when Elijah and Moses were speaking with Jesus about his death shows their spiritual form was in heaven. The same as Lazarus was with Abraham.
Matthew 27:52 After Christ Resurrected.
and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
Would this not be Abraham and Moses and many others?

Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
1 Corinthians 6:14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.
2 Corinthians 4:14
because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself.
Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, ( we have already been raised from the dead, we are just passing from the visible to the invisible, from the earthly body to the spiritually one).
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the deadóJesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Thank You
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Old 10-17-2009, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,118,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
No one talks more about hell than Jesus. Jesus says of those who go to hell that He says to them, ..Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Again, "never means never" That is so complete that those who end up in hell aren't called by name. You lose everything....even your name.

They way I have been lead to believe about Lazuras and the rich man is that it could be both...actual and an example

Reasons that it maybe Actual:
  • The chasm is real. There is no getting out of hell, it's finality for the unbeliever's soul and someday the reunited body and soul will be condemned, as the YLT puts it "the age after judgement".
  • "the age after judgement" is forever
  • there was actual men by the name of Lazuras and Abraham
  • there probably was an actual rich man that Lazuras begged from
  • that the rich man had brothers
  • after death you're immediately in one or the other place
  • faith on earth is the determining factor for Lazuras, unbelief for the rich man
  • those in hell are unable to comfort themself
  • Nothing will convince unbelievers other than God's Word.
Reasons that it maybe a example to what will happen as an object lesson:
  • outside this account, we do not read of any communication between those in heaven and hell
  • being in the bossom of Abraham is probably a reference to the promise to Abraham being the father of many nations
  • If that is so, Lazuras represents believers and the rich man unbelievers
Jesus didn't speak about "Hell", He spoke about "Gehenna" which was a garbage dump where not only garbage was thrown but executed criminals found their home there as well...huge difference between the two. I suggest you study Jewish thought on the disgrace of not having a proper burial...it may enlighten you.
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:16 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,813,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Who is the greatest persuader you know?

Paul
in terms of what?
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:19 AM
 
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In the New Test you do see that there is none better of the early church than Paul at getting his point across...
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,813,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Jesus didn't speak about "Hell", He spoke about "Gehenna" which was a garbage dump where not only garbage was thrown but executed criminals found their home there as well...huge difference between the two. I suggest you study Jewish thought on the disgrace of not having a proper burial...it may enlighten you.
Thanks.
That was why I said that. You may even become more enlightened to know that Jesus is trying to explain it in human terms by using that as an example.
That is why he talked more about hell than anyone.
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:33 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,487,756 times
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I dont mind being enlightened, as long as Im grounded....

In the verse we are talking about here, did Christ use the term "Gehenna"?
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,707,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I dont mind being enlightened, as long as Im grounded....

In the verse we are talking about here, did Christ use the term "Gehenna"?
no "hades", however hades is not everlasting, even if it were a literal description of the afterlive it would not necessarily contradict universalism.
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