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Old 10-22-2009, 10:49 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,489,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Hi Alan....
My advice?
Break up a monster long single paragraph into smaller paragraphs so that your post is able to be read and understood..

set aside one idea by itself, so that your readership has a chance to grasps your meanings, and also the chance to catch their breath before the next idea flows at them...

I tend to not even attempt to read the monster long paragraphs...
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,571,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
We should never assume that every question we can ask has a clear-cut answer in the Bible....
The bible has a very limited topic list, and speaks on very few of the questions that we might dream up.

Prov. 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Prov. 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."
yes, while it would be nice if the Bible told me what apple to pick out of the many I saw before me at the apply display, the truth is the Bible is mute on the topic.

While it would also be handy if the Bible told me what side of the car to clean first, the truth is that the Bible is next to useless when looking for that answer...


There are always going to be way more questions that we can dream up that the Bible attempts to answer.
it would be dangerious to think we can twist the Bible's text into an answer for everything
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I believe that Jesus will return next time with very real fire...
I believe the fire in hell is very real and unending.
That is what the Text says about it...

The Bible never used the word "FAKE" to talk about the fire in hell.
Nor does the Bible ever use the term, "Symbolic" to describe the fire burning the Lost in Hell.
I never used the word "FAKE", I used the word symoblic. For example, if you don't believe that then I would like to know how you fulfill this one:

Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you

Do you have the literal body of Jesus Christ to eat His flesh and drink His blood? Do you not see that Jesus never was referring to fixation on the things of this world as your saying? Why would God who must be worshipped in Spirit pin our worship of Him on things NOT of the Spirit such as the earthly things of this world?
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,632,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
My advice?
Break up a monster long single paragraph into smaller paragraphs so that your post is able to be read and understood..

set aside one idea by itself, so that your readership has a chance to grasps your meanings, and also the chance to catch their breath before the next idea flows at them...

I tend to not even attempt to read the monster long paragraphs...
Ok Alan, lets start with this one:

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

God makes His ministers a flame of fire. What do you say about that?
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,632,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Prov. 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."
I think this explains many ETers beliefs:

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

They hear what the multitudes hear.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:44 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,489,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post

Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you

Do you have the literal body of Jesus Christ to eat His flesh and drink His blood? ?
That is a topic called the "Transubstantiation" of the bread and wine.
There are different schools of thought on that topic that I do respect.

In my own mind, I see Jesus very clearly right after saying that goes over the meaning of his terms...

In the account of the rich man and Lazarus, we have a very clear telling of what I believe is real history.
The person of Lazarus is real, the events that happened to him in the after life are as given.

The way Jesus points so clearly at the concept that Hell is forever cant be missed.

Never once later does Jesus refer to the story and say he was , "Just kidding..."

Also, in most all the other parables that are just stories told to teach a lesson, the bible points out that what we are reading is a parable.

But NOT HERE!

This story is no where referred to as being only just a little parable.
This story is HISTORY!
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:56 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,489,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Ok Alan, lets start with this one:

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

God makes His ministers a flame of fire. What do you say about that?
God speaks of natural things as if they are his tools.
see Ps 104:4 where it talks about the storm wind and the lightning as tools of God's purposes.

Thus lets look at the verse you listed in this context.

"Who maketh his angels spirits", this is very true. Angels of creatures of spirit....Now I cant say i know what that all means, but it does point out how different they are than we are as creatures of flesh.


"his ministers a flame of fire" this is very true, in that all things, even things like a storm, or a wind, or even fire are things that God has made and can be used by Him as tools for His work.

You may object to this text and say that it is crazy to refer to a natural thing like a wind or a fire as being God instrument in the world...but that's just the way the Bible presents them to us sometimes.

Fire is God worker sometimes...Fire is a tool of God to use as He sees fit...
Some times in a burning bush, sometimes in the lake of fire....
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,709,605 times
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Default Lazarus a believer?

Quote:
What Jesus teaches is that the believer was taken by the angels and there finds rest and comfort...
where did Jesus say, that Lazarus was a believer? - apparently Lazarus went to Abraham's bossom only for being poor, why is Abraham's bossom mentioned nowhere else in the bible? There are about 65 references to Sheol (Hades in Greek) in the Old Testament, not a single of them hints at a seperated netherworld for either the just or the unjust.

Quote:
Why is a righteous person represented as a beggar?

David wrote this:

"I have been young, and am old; yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken, or his seed begging bread" (Psalms 37:25 MKJV).

A Psalm also declares: "The Lord God is our sun and our strength: the Lord will give grace and glory: He will not keep back any good thing from those whose ways are upright" (Psalms 84:11 BBE).

Of course, we assume Lazarus is righteous, because he is afterward seated with Abraham and being rewarded in the Kingdom of Heaven. But according to the Lord’s consistent use of words and descriptions that agree with His definitions and laws, Lazarus would not have been in such a position. What virtues and fruits of faith were attributed to him that he should be carried by angels to Heaven and given a "front row seat" to boot? Poverty? Begging? Abuse? Suffering? None of these things avail with God, but the author of this story seems to think so.
I advise you to read this:

The Rich Man and Lazarus – A Pagan Parable (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/lazarus.htm - broken link)
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Old 10-23-2009, 07:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
apparently Lazarus went to Abraham's bossom only for being poor,
We don't know that...
How can you say that?
There is nothing in the text to support your view on that...

Abraham is a believer, and to be able to stand next to him in the afterlife is clue enough to base an idea that Lazarus is also a believer..

However we know nothing about the faith of Lazarus.
That topic does not come up in this story.
We should not jump to the conclusion that Lazarus was granted eternal life only because he was poor and sick...

We know he was poor and sick, but that's about it.

again, given that Abraham is clearly identified and we know from the Bible that Abraham was a believer, this fact alone shows us that Lazarus was also a believer.
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