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Old 10-24-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I think the key thing about the story is that it answers a lot of little questions we might ask about the afterlife.

Do the Lost stay awake?...yes
Do the Lost know they are burning in a fire?...yes
Do the Lost seek to get out of their pain?...oh yes

Another topic that comes up is the idea that somehow the lost can get out of their situation.
In the story Jesus directly address the question and makes it very clear that the Lost are in the fire forever. And that there is no way for them to ever cross over to Paradise.
If we continued in YOUR same reasoning then we could conclude that if you are LOST as you state then it means that the worse that will happen to you is that you will desire for your tongue to be cooled off. So having a warm tongue that needs cooled off is the worse torment that anyone is going to face if they go to Hell. Just following your same reasoning.
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
you will desire for your tongue to be cooled off. .
Yes,
The way the story brings up that part, it seems that the Lost are in such torment that they would value even one small drop of water from a dipped finger...
This is about the smallest amount of water they could ask for, yet even that proved to be out of the question.

Yes, the Lost would have really wished for a cool bath of water, but the fact they begged only for this seemingly insignificant amount in the hope of getting it just proves how totally desperate the Lost are for any relief at all.

It is interesting to note that they did not find any chance at all to receive even this smallest amount of cooling water.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes,
The way the story brings up that part, it seems that the Lost are in such torment that they would value even one small drop of water from a dipped finger...
This is about the smallest amount of water they could ask for, yet even that proved to be out of the question.

Yes, the Lost would have really wished for a cool bath of water, but the fact they begged only for this seemingly insignificant amount in the hope of getting it just proves how totally desperate the Lost are for any relief at all.

It is interesting to note that they did not find any chance at all to receive even this smallest amount of cooling water.
Wow, you still believe that? Ok, so you also believe that fire will be so bad that you will be able to carry on a conversation?

My trump card is coming - but I keep getting you to commit that this is all real and not a parable. So still think it is all not a parable?
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Wow, you still believe that? Ok, so you also believe that fire will be so bad that you will be able to carry on a conversation?
The story says that:
"...he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him...,"
The story tells us that there is a great distance between hell and Paradise...
But that my guess is that you get a strong voice while in hell, so it can carry across the great chasm to the other side.

Why does everyone in Hell have a strong voice?....
Its the Non-stop screaming.
Really builds up the vocal cords
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
So still think it is all not a parable?
I think there is a strong case to be made that the person of Lazarus in this story might be the same Lazarus that Jesus raised from the dead.

This would make some text all line up better concerning the other verses about Jesus going to the home of Simon The Leper, and the anointing of oil by a girl, that in other verses we see might well have been Mary the sister of Martha and ...(you guessed it)...Lazarus!

Now if it is true that one day we find more proof that Simon and Lazarus are the same person, then this account becomes more of a real historical account that also teaches, rather than just being another invented story that teaches....

either way the story of Lazarus and the rich man do give us an inside scoop from Jesus about what life is like for the people burning forever in Hell....
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I think there is a strong case to be made that the person of Lazarus in this story might be the same Lazarus that Jesus raised from the dead.

This would make some text all line up better concerning the other verses about Jesus going to the home of Simon The Leper, and the anointing of oil by a girl, that in other verses we see might well have been Mary the sister of Martha and ...(you guessed it)...Lazarus!

Now if it is true that one day we find more proof that Simon and Lazarus are the same person, then this account becomes more of a real historical account that also teaches, rather than just being another invented story that teaches....

either way the story of Lazarus and the rich man do give us an inside scoop from Jesus about what life is like for the people burning forever in Hell....
Alan, of course it is a reference to the Lazarus who is Simon the Leper. After all who had 5 brothers as the parable describes? You ready yet?

Will you realize that if I show you this that your mind will be given information that can no longer seize unto the understanding that is contrary to Universal Salvation?
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:05 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Actually it is our OWN spirits that are evil. That spirit must be replaced by His Spirit - Jesus Christ. By putting on His Spirit - our spirit is displaced - thus destroyed. Once you can truely grasp that then all this talk of Wrath and Hell and salvation and such becomes easy to understand.
Again, it's just a technicality but your term here 'spirit' is off base AISI. Spiritually we are in God's image - that's not the problem.

Ecc. 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Proverbs 20:27, "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly."

I Cor, 5:5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes and the Bible is the first to point out when Jesus begins to talk in teaching parables too.

Any idea if the Bible even once claims that the story of Lazarus is such a parable?
Luke 16:14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him. 15 And He said to them, "

This is in the middle of 5 stories. I guess if you want to say some were parables and some were not - you can.

Since you made this comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
The story tells us that there is a great distance between hell and Paradise...
But that my guess is that you get a strong voice while in hell, so it can carry across the great chasm to the other side.

Why does everyone in Hell have a strong voice?....
Its the Non-stop screaming.
Really builds up the vocal cords
I really can't take your POV seriously anymore. Eternal torment is a joke to you since it's not you in torment? No respect.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
I guess if you want to say some were parables and some were not - you can.
The main difference between strictly parables that were invented stories, and the account of Lazarus is that Jesus named the person of Lazarus.

This marks it out to us as different.
The story also teaches it's lessons to us and so we should not just say it is strictly a historical account.

Some of the lessons deal with what life is like for the people that have died and went to paradise or to hell.

What are some of the facts we see clearly talked about in the story?

That angels take the saved person to paradise.
That the lost burn in a very real fire.
That the Lost and the Saved can call out to each other, but that the Lost cant ever cross over to paradise.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
had 5 brothers
Ever question why he didn't want to send word to warn his sister?
But then again, Jesus never said the rich man had any sisters, so I guess he didn't.....nevermind then, I was thinking of someone else....
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