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Old 10-27-2009, 05:12 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,048 times
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so to review.
This account of Lazarus gives us a very clear eyewitness point of view of what life is like in either Paradise just before the Resurrection of Christ, or what Hell was like.

Any Bible verses that seem to teach that the dead are not awake in the after life are written from the point of view of someone "Under the sun".
in other words, just looking at a dead body as it is lowered into he grave and covered over with dirt.
From that very limited pov, then it is very true, "The Dead nothing nothing"

But when you consider that the Spirit of a person goes to the Father at death, then you see that the truth of the matter is that the dead are very much awake and engaged with their reality.

The reality of the damned is that they feel great loss, great pain, and that they know this is all due to their own foolishness.

whereas he Saved enjoy bliss and rest
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,568,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, one of the key parts of he story of Lazarus and the rich man is that the ones in hell can see very clearly the people who are enjoying paradise.

This must only add to their sufferings ...LOL
LOL??? Really?

There's a term for this. I think it's called sociopathic?

Ice people: the sociopaths -- When normal conscience sleeps.

I hope those involved in this will get the help they need. Sooner the better.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:40 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
LOL??? Really?

There's a term for this. I think it's called sociopathic?

Ice people: the sociopaths -- When normal conscience sleeps.

I hope those involved in this will get the help they need. Sooner the better.
No kidding. Alan's cavalier attitude sends chills down my spine. When I read these stories "literally" I think of myself in that position, in torment; I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Then to add to the picture - words like Alan's "Sorry Charley, You ain't going anywhere, so better get used to it" - this is the stuff of nightmares. And we are supposed to believe those in hell can see those in heaven?!? What about those in heaven? Are they "enjoying" watching those in hell?

In fact I did have nightmares like this on a couple occasions when I was younger, I suppose I should write a book about it and call it "two nights in hell"
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,568,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
No kidding. Alan's cavalier attitude sends chills down my spine. When I read these stories "literally" I think of myself in that position, in torment; I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Then to add to the picture - words like Alan's "Sorry Charley, You ain't going anywhere, so better get used to it" - this is the stuff of nightmares. And we are supposed to believe those in hell can see those in heaven?!? What about those in heaven? Are they "enjoying" watching those in hell?

In fact I did have nightmares like this on a couple occasions when I was younger, I suppose I should write a book about it and call it "two nights in hell"
This is only the second time I have encountered a "LOL" by a 'believer' concerning someone's supposed eternal suffering.

I did hear that the boys who recently set a young man on fire laughed as well:
Police: Juveniles laughed after setting 15-year-old on fire - CNN.com

It seems this evil of sociopathy exists sparingly (thank God). I would definitely say all the cases I have encountered reveal the same character though. At least the teens in Florida aren't claiming to be representing God.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:12 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,434,483 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
so to review.
This account of Lazarus gives us a very clear eyewitness point of view of what life is like in either Paradise just before the Resurrection of Christ, or what Hell was like.

Any Bible verses that seem to teach that the dead are not awake in the after life are written from the point of view of someone "Under the sun".
in other words, just looking at a dead body as it is lowered into he grave and covered over with dirt.
From that very limited pov, then it is very true, "The Dead nothing nothing"

But when you consider that the Spirit of a person goes to the Father at death, then you see that the truth of the matter is that the dead are very much awake and engaged with their reality.

The reality of the damned is that they feel great loss, great pain, and that they know this is all due to their own foolishness.

whereas he Saved enjoy bliss and rest
But Alan, The parable of the R-man and Laz. is not about "Hell" but "Hades" which is "Sheol" in the Old Testament and translated "grave." It is the place one goes when they die if not cremated.

Are there really rivers flowing through the tombs in which the R-man and Laz. were interred? Are there really great chasms in tombs? Is there really fire in tombs or graves?

The reality is that the dead know nothing unless it is in a made-up story to make a lesson for the spiritual dull.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,708,182 times
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Quote:
Are you saying, Alan is proud, self righteous?
no; Moderator cut: delete

There are many people who believe in hell and sincerely wish it were not true, I do not accuse such people, but he apparently rejoices in this idea.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-27-2009 at 08:12 PM.. Reason: too personal
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:03 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,452,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
no; There are many people who believe in hell and sincerely wish it were not true, I do not accuse such people, but he apparently rejoices in this idea.
If hell is real and it gives Him the glory because everything gives Him the glory then shouldn't we rejoice?

Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-27-2009 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:18 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If hell is real and it gives Him the glory because everything gives Him the glory then shouldn't we rejoice?
We should rejoice that people are being tormented for eternity?
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:20 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,452,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
We should rejoice that people are being tormented for eternity?
If it gives Him the glory?
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,708,182 times
Reputation: 842
would you rejoice if your mother, your father, your wife, your children, everybody you love would go to hell to infinity and you may watch it in paradise, would you?

when you say "no", and at least in your heart you hope it will not be so - I am sure of this; then you're hypocrite.

God burning people in hell is something that gives God glory, right? (where is this in scripture btw), but only if these people are strangers to us I suppose, but if it is otherwise, we should point with the fingers at them and laugh?
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