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Old 10-27-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,281 posts, read 20,021,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If hell is real and it gives Him the glory because everything gives Him the glory then shouldn't we rejoice?
Shakes head in utter amazement.

Forget whether ET or UR is true or not Fundy

For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Does this sound like it gives God Glory
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:22 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,461,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
would you rejoice if your mother, your father, your wife, your children, everybody you love would go to hell to infinity and you may watch it in paradise, would you?

when you say "no", and at least in your heart you hope it will not be so - I am sure of this; then you're hypocrite.

God burning people in hell is something that gives God glory, right? (where is this in scripture btw), but only if these people are strangers I suppose.
You are appealing from a humanistic, emotional plea. I asked, if hell is real and it gave Him the glory. Is there any scripture you know of said, we shouldn't rejoice?
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:26 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,281 posts, read 20,021,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You are appealing from a humanistic, emotional plea. I asked, if hell is real and it gave Him the glory. Is there any scripture you know of said, we shouldn't rejoice?
And God doesn't have emotions ? , sounds like you haven't if you would rejoice over the death of anyone.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:30 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,461,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
And God doesn't have emotions ? , sounds like you haven't if you would rejoice over the death of anyone.
Whaaaaaat?........
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,711,308 times
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the bible says we shall pray for all men and that it is God's will that all men are saved and that noone perishes, yet you say we shall rejoice if the opposite were true.

You turn the scripture which you always try so piously to defend into its exact opposite and want that I explain myself.

You can not even proof that scripture teaches endless suffering, how much less that we should rejoice if it were true.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:38 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,461,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
the bible says we shall pray for all men and that it is God's will that all men are saved and that noone perishes, yet you say we shall rejoice if the opposite were true.

You turn the scripture which you always try so piously to defend into its exact opposite and want that I explain myself.

You can not even proof that scripture teaches endless suffering, how much less that we should rejoice if it were true.
Wow! No one is trying to prove an eternal hell. I asked IF hell is real which many believe then it must give Him the glory since everything gives Him the glory (glory and will are not the same) then why shouldn't Christians in heaven rejoice?, obviously we must see and experience heaven and receive our holy body to fully agree with God about our loved ones who rejected Him deserving their fate. We can't fully agree right now or comply with such a thought because many of us in our present fallen state can't comprehend nor bare the thought of our loved ones, friends suffering let alone suffering for eternity.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-27-2009 at 11:55 AM..
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,711,308 times
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Quote:
I asked IF hell is real which many believe then it must give Him the glory since everything gives Him the glory (glory and will are not the same) then why shouldn't Christians in heaven rejoice?
I think this question is grotesque, nobody with the slightest compassion could rejoice that a human being would suffer such a fate, Christ told us too love our enemies and our neighbour like ourselves, so how could we rejoice over their endless doom if we would fullfill Christ's commandment? How can something that is against God's will give Him glory?

now you might say, if it were to God's glory we should even rejoice over our own endless doom but I don't think that God is a sadist and that believers are called to be masochists.

Quote:
nor bare the thought of our loved ones, friends suffering let alone suffering for eternity.
I could also hardly bare the thought that my worst enemy is suffering forevermore

this is worth to read:

Too Much to Lose (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/falseteachers/kirkcameron.htm - broken link)

a short excerpt from it:

Quote:
You write:

I too, in my sinful, finite, and warped human intellect would like an eternal hell to not exist....

Speak for yourself. We are not walking in sinful flesh or speaking by carnal intellect. As for whether it is warped to hope that such a thing as never-ending torment does not exist, we have submitted to you that it is warped to believe that it does, and we have backed up our assertion with Scripture and sane reasoning. You are, unwittingly, calling God’s thinking and ways warped and sinful. That is blasphemy. Here is some more of what He says, contrary to your condemnation of Him:

“Put away all your evil-doing in which you have done sin; and make for yourselves a new heart and a new spirit: why are you desiring death, O children of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him on whom death comes, says the Lord: be turned back then, and have life” (Ezekiel 18:31-32 BBE).

Is God forced to live with His displeasure, or does His will prevail?

“Keep this in mind and be shamed; let it come back to your memory, you sinners. Let the things which are past come to your memory: for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me; making clear from the first what is to come, and from past times the things which have not so far come about; saying, My purpose is fixed, and I will do all My pleasure” (Isaiah 46:8-10 BBE).

You do not glorify God at all, Kirk. You belittle and shame Him.

You also contradict yourself, God, and Scripture, even in the same sentence, and haven’t a clue what you are doing. You write:

...I cannot stand in judgment over an all-wise God (even when I cannot fully wrap my mind around the concept of an infinate god, sin's infinite offense, and God's infinite punishment for transgression) and what appears to me, at least for now, to be a clear biblical doctrine.

If you do not know what God is saying or doing, and cannot judge these matters, why are you defending something that only “appears” to be “clear biblical doctrine”? Can one depend on his limited carnal mind to determine what is spiritual revelation from the mind of God? Yet that is what you are doing. That is sin. You presume to teach others based on that which you clearly do not know. That is what false prophets and teachers do.

Last edited by svenM; 10-27-2009 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:12 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,413,377 times
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I think that is the proof right there Sven. God told us to love our enemies! So we should not be rejoicing at their endless suffering.

So Fundy, what say you?

Will loving our enemies bring glory to God?
Or do we instead rejoice at our enemies torment which allegedly brings glory to God?


Is God contradictory?!? Oh I know its just a paradox...
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:20 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,461,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I think that is the proof right there Sven. God told us to love our enemies! So we should not be rejoicing at their endless suffering.

So Fundy, what say you?

Will loving our enemies bring glory to God?
Or do we instead rejoice at our enemies torment which allegedly brings glory to God?


Is God contradictory?!? Oh I know its just a paradox...
I have no idea what you are talking about, that says nothing. I asked a question about God's glory...IF hell was real. I asked nothing about commandments or God's will. it's either a yes or a no but instead I get opinions, emotional pleas, scripture that has absolutely nothing to do with the sovereignty of God. A yes or a no would have suffice.
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:23 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,461,043 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
I think this question is grotesque, nobody with the slightest compassion could rejoice that a human being would suffer such a fate, Christ told us.............it:
Man! A yes or no would have suffice instead of all that stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked.
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