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Old 10-16-2009, 09:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am not talking about fighting battles. I allow the world to run the way it wants to run-I don't get caught up in politics etc..... I am talking about how dangerous pragmatism can be in the church today. Gay adoption is just one of many topics. Can this spill into scripture as well?
We in the church can not do evil that good may come.

We cant ...however we also have to pick the battles even within the church that are worth fighting...

Even Paul had to learn that , sometimes "close" is good enough.
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
so are you saying, we should rethink stealing, adultery? etc.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
If you see that Christ set us free to live according to the perfect law of liberty you will see things from a position of love ("tough love" even) which seeks the best for people and is a very different perspective than a "rule-keeper".
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Why are you rolling your eyes. I asked this question based on how one can discern something to be pragmatic using scripture so from that I would think we should rethink everything in the bible?

Quote:
If you see that Christ set us free to live according to the perfect law of liberty you will see things from a position of love ("tough love" even) which seeks the best for people and is a very different perspective than a "rule-keeper".
Quote:
That all well and good but I see nothing in scripture to support pragmatism. Is the bible clear on whether we should be doing or supporting wrong just because the results can be good? Is the "sinner's prayer" a good idea?
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
We in the church can not do evil that good may come.

We cant ...however we also have to pick the battles even within the church that are worth fighting...

Even Paul had to learn that , sometimes "close" is good enough.
Can you give an example?
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Can you give an example?
Remember the story where the Jewish Christians got upset with Paul because Paul was telling the Non-Jews that they did not have to convert to the Jewish faith first?

Paul and the Jewish Christians had a big meeting....and in the end they came up with a compromise that both sides could live with...

Im not saying that both sides were happy, but both knew that it was "close enough"

another example was that Paul got upset when someone he no longer trusted was going to be sent with him on a trip...
paul just could not allow the guy to join the mission,

There are a debate...

A compromise was agreed to, and Paul still went on his mission, the other guy got to go on a mission too.
\
Was Paul happy?...not really....but knew the compromise was close enough



and finally


Paul sent back a run away slave...he didnt really want to,,more than likely had kept the guy with him extra long to try to find a way not to send him back into slavery,,,but in the end Paul knew he had to pick the battles he got into with care....
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Why are you rolling your eyes.
It just seemed like you missed my point. It still seems that way.

There's no need to "rethink everything in the Bible" which to me means that you think I'm saying the Bible isn't valid. I simply said that we need to discern Scripture with the mind of Christ and that Christianity isn't about following a set of rules in order to please God. It can be more difficult to make snap judgments that way, but that's not a bad thing.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:06 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,491,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Remember the story where the Jewish Christians got upset with Paul because Paul was telling the Non-Jews that they did not have to convert to the Jewish faith first?

Paul and the Jewish Christians had a big meeting....and in the end they came up with a compromise that both sides could live with...

Im not saying that both sides were happy, but both knew that it was "close enough"

another example was that Paul got upset when someone he no longer trusted was going to be sent with him on a trip...
paul just could not allow the guy to join the mission,

There are a debate...

A compromise was agreed to, and Paul still went on his mission, the other guy got to go on a mission too.
\
Was Paul happy?...not really....but knew the compromise was close enough



and finally


Paul sent back a run away slave...he didnt really want to,,more than likely had kept the guy with him extra long to try to find a way not to send him back into slavery,,,but in the end Paul knew he had to pick the battles he got into with care....
I understand where you are coming from but I don't see pragmatism in any of those. Paul didn't do anything wrong?
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Paul didn't do anything wrong?
again, we cant do things that are evil that good may come.

This is a clear teaching of the Bible about that issue.

But we in the church also have to be very careful that we pick what battles are worth fighting, and what are "close enough" to live with.


Sorta like being a warrior in a great battle.
We rush into the battle lines and pick out someone to kill.
But just before we lift our sword and kill the other guy, we first fix the buttons on his shirt so that they match their right button holes,

When dealing with matters inside the church , you got to pick what things are worth correcting, and what things are close enough

because you can miss something going on very important while you were too busy fixing the buttons on the other guy...
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,430,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I respect that answer but I am not tallking about fighting culture or forcing our beliefs. I am only referring to the mind set of some Christians dealing with pragmatism.
I am looking at your posts and wonder what definition of pragmatic you are using...

Webster's definition of Pragmatic:
  1. Dealing or concerned with facts or actual occurrences; practical.
  2. Philosophy Of or relating to pragmatism.
  3. Relating to or being the study of cause and effect in historical or political events with emphasis on the practical lessons to be learned from them.
  4. Archaic
    1. Active; busy.
    2. Active in an officious or meddlesome way.
    3. Dogmatic; dictatorial.
n.
  1. A pragmatic sanction.
  2. Archaic A meddler; a busybody.
I don't see the connection.. perhaps someone can help me out here...
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Old 10-16-2009, 11:08 AM
 
15,253 posts, read 7,639,646 times
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Pragmatism: a philosophical movement or system having various forms, but generally stressing practical consequences as constituting the essential criterion in determining meaning, truth, or value.
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