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Old 10-18-2009, 09:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
perhaps more significant, is why three days.
I remember from my Bible school that there was an important tradition reason why Jesus had to wait for his friend Lazarus to be dead for 4 days before he could go get him back.....
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
It's just an interesting debatable point as to find out how many hours was Jesus in the tomb?

But I am glad to see others starting to find some of what I write to be relevant....
Alan, June did find what you wrote to be relevant!

The last sentence that she quoted struck her as being quite relevant!

June also understands the interest around debate. She didn't mean to come off sounding quite so harsh.

Sincere apologies to you, from June, if needed.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
The word "Day" can.... well mostly, can have 2 clear meanings.

Day can mean a full 24 hours.
see Genesis 1:5 "And there was evening and morning the first Day"

or...

Day can mean the point of time when your side of the earth is pointed to the sun and it's light outside.
God called the light "Day" and the darkness he called "night"

Does this 2 ways of looking at the word change the time line of the answer you have there?

My question deals with the statement that Jesus said he was rise in 3 days, or on the 3rd day .

so I would like someone to look at the question from both understandings I have given for the word "Day" one at a time to see if that changes the amount of time needed?

Example,
First make day mean not less than 24 hours, and see how long you need to be somewhere on the 3rd day.

Next, consider a "day" as being only talking about seeing the sun, even if just for a moment.
Does that change your answer if you are only talking about seeing the sun for 3 times before he will rise?
Since Matthew 12:40 specifically says three days And three nights, it means three 24 hour periods. There's no getting around it. And the fact that Christ was crucified the day before Passover which was on Thursday that year, means He was crucified on Wednesday.

As to the issue of 'three days' versus 'on the third day', one second before the end of the third day qualifies both as being on the third day and still fulfills three days and three nights.

Matthew 12:40 ''...so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.''

Matthew 16:21 and be raised up on the third day.

Mark 8:31 ''...and after three days rise again

They didn't use clocks with second hands on them. The Jews looked at time dfferently then we do. When the sun went down, a new day began. There is some room for allowance here.

So a new day for the Jews actually began at night.

Day 1) one complete night and one complete day comprising a 24 hr. period.

Day 2) one complete night and one complete day.

Day 3) one complete night and one complete day. As the sun was setting on the third day, which was Saturday, it was now becoming evening and therefore Sunday. So, on the third day, after the third day,...close enough.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:01 AM
 
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but back to my question to Mike...

I got no problem at all with the cross being on a Wednesday...

After all no one actually thinks Christmas is the real date of the Birth of Christ...
We are not 100% of day Jesus was born on, my view is that one day is just as good as another, so Dec 25 is fine with me.

So I don't have a dog in the whole "Good Friday" dog fight.

However I do have a little problem with the way some of the defenders of the mid-week cross date try to support their argument.

They try to make it seem that Jesus was talking about 72 hours, being equal to the "three days" Jesus talked about.
I think that argument Fails .

The way the text seems to understand the term "Day" is sure looks like it is only talking about seeing the light of the sunshine outside.
I dont get a 24 hour meaning from the different texts at all in connection with the word "day" and the amount of time Jesus was in the grave.

Jesus clearly says that he would raise up his own body "In Three Days"
The days he is talking about are 3 times you can see the sun outside.
"in three days" to me, means that at some point when you see the sun for that 3rd time Jesus will come back to life.

This takes away any chance that the resurrection happened at night...

And that is important because a lot of defenders of the mid-week cross idea hold that Jesus could have come back to life when it was dark outside...I don't think that is correct.

Jesus said that he would be back 'in" 3 days,,,meaning that while the sun is out for that 3rd time, he would come back...
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Since Matthew 12:40 specifically says three days And three nights,.
...dont you see?...the term "day" there is talking about...oh,,roughly 12 hours of sunlight....

do you see that?

You know that Im right , that Jesus is talking about the sun because he clearly contrasts the term "day" with the term 'Night"

look at Matthew 16:21 and be raised up on the third day.

"On" the 3rd day, means the 3rd time you see the sun...that is when he would come back to life.

"On the 4th day" would mean after you have seen the sun 4 times...etc.

So there is no way to take the word 'day" and have it means anything more that at most the 12 hours of sunshine from the context that Jesus uses it within...
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When the sun went down, a new day began. .
see that right there is where I think the problem is...
that argument is against the meaning for the term 'day" that Jesus has in mind.

instead of the 'day" starting at sunset...Jesus is talking about the sunrise!....
You know this is true because Jesus is careful to contrast the term 'day" with the term 'night"

If Jesus wanted us to think of darkness only, then he could not have pointed to the difference between the darkness and the light.

This is just like in Genesis where God called the light "Day" and the darkness he called "night"...

Jesus was talking about seeing the sun for the 3rd time...
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:21 AM
 
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Another error I see a lot of is that some people push the idea that "So Jesus could have resurrected any time after sunset on Saturday. "
That is totally in error!

The truth is that anytime after Sunrise for that 3rd time you can see the sun Jesus could have come back to life...

Jesus could NOT come back to life at night.....
To do that Jesus would have had to say, that "On the 3rd night I will rise..."
But he did not say that.
He said clearly that on (or in) the 3rd "day" he would rise, (this "day" meaning the sun is out!)

Last edited by alanMolstad; 10-18-2009 at 11:51 AM..
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:49 AM
 
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again, I dont really have any interest in this topic as to what side is more right.

my only concern is the error in Bible understanding and bible argument that some on the pro-Wednesday side seem to have.

My understanding of the way Jesus used the term "day" is that it is clearly aimed at the light of the sun being seen..
This is proved in the reference to Jonah in the fish "3 days and 3 nights"

So if its still dark outside? then its 'night"
But if it's light outside and you can see the sun?...thats the 'day" time....
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Old 10-18-2009, 12:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
...dont you see?...the term "day" there is talking about...oh,,roughly 12 hours of sunlight....

do you see that?

You know that Im right , that Jesus is talking about the sun because he clearly contrasts the term "day" with the term 'Night"
And because day is contrasted from night, and because it says that both three days and three nights must be taken into account, it means 3 complete 24 hr. periods.


Quote:
look at Matthew 16:21 and be raised up on the third day.

"On" the 3rd day, means the 3rd time you see the sun...that is when he would come back to life.

"On the 4th day" would mean after you have seen the sun 4 times...etc.

So there is no way to take the word 'day" and have it means anything more that at most the 12 hours of sunshine...
Just as we call our day a 24 hour period which includes both the day and the night, so too with the Jewish reckoning of time. The only difference is that we go from midnight to midnight, and the Jewish day went from sundown to sundown.

Let's look at like this. We will assume for the moment that Christ was crucified on Friday. He wasn't, but we'll assume it for the moment.

He died on Friday at about 3 P.M. His body goes into the tomb while it is still daylight. So you have your portion of one Day. Day One.

Now night time comes and goes and it is now Saturday. So all of Saturday (the daylight hours) goes by and you have day two accounted for.

Now night time comes and goes and it is now Sunday. So now along comes Mary as it begins to dawn toward the first day of the week (Sunday) while it was still dark. So in fact, night time has not gone. It is still dark.

Matt. 28:1 as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week.

Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning of the first day of the week.

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulcher.

John 20: Now on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and they saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

Jesus had been resurrected sometime during the night before Mary came to the tomb while it was still dark.

So under this scenario, there never was a third period of daylight. There never was a third day. It just doesn't work.

Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. And again you also have to take into account that the Passover that year was on a Thursday, and Christ was crucified the day before the Passover. On Wednesday.
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Old 10-18-2009, 12:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And because day is contrasted from night,.
Do you see how the use of the term 'day" by our Lord is talking about us seeing the sun?
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