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Old 10-18-2009, 02:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
You must define your terms, then you can use them anyway you want I dont care.

This is the way I define the term...
Resurrection = means to come back in everlasting body of flesh and bone...we are talking about only Jesus!
Only Jesus has been truly resurrection as he says himself. "I am the resurrection!"

So if your way to understand the term "Resurrection" does not mean Jesus?...then you are not in agreement with what Jesus said the term means to Him...


So My advice?
Go change your way to define it, so that you automatically think of only Jesus when you see the term "Resurrection" and then you will agree with Jesus..

He, and He alone is the resurrection.

Ok, I see what you are saying.
But they were still both resurrected.
Just because you put a capital "R" on Jesus' resurrection (so to speak) because He was resuurected into a glorifed state, doesn't negate the fact that Lazarus was still resurrected, even if it was a small "r" because his resurrection (coming back from the dead) was back into a physical flesh and blood state.

Jesus' resurrection was MORE than just a resurrection. It was THE resurrection, I agree with you on that point.

I guess we just see it in slightly different ways.
Although, I will say, I am definitely open on this topic.
So, I appreciate the discussion.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
a moot point...Im right.

Christians believe in the resurrection of the Body.
This means that even is my body got blowed up and is even less than dust,,,or has even become food for worms and plants and nature, when I am called out of the grave I will receive a new body...a body just like the One Jesus has right now!
But Jesus said he ate and drank in his resurrected body. Did he eat because he was hungry and in a physical body or was is just some drama that was played out by Christ?

Quote:
it has a new nature,,,it can never die.

On the other hand.
The little girl that Jesus called back to life , just came back in her normal body of flesh and blood.
She would still age, she would still get sick, she would still die again...
So the people that were raised to life during the mission of Christ were not Resurrected!....

Oh and the argument that Jesus should not have eaten after the resurrection is moot too.

Jesus ate because he wanted to.
Remember, He walked on the road when clearly he did not have to as we see when he broke bread later and then "beamed" out..

He didnt have to eat,,,he didnt have to walk,,,he just wanted too!
He just wanted everyone to think he had a glorified body but show them clearly that he was just as physical as before his death?

Was Jesus playing games? Jesus explicitly states that he is flesh and blood: (Luke 24:39)
"Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

An emphatic "I" repeated with myself ? It is more likely that he is saying "You dorks.. look at me! I am not just a spirit, we discussed this, remember!"

But anyway.. Do you really think Christ was prancing around in a glorified body (that does not hunger or sleep or feel pain and sadness) eating and drinking... just to fool everyone or what? You make it so convoluted if you say that the body is resurrected.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
But does the term "resurrected" HAVE to mean resurrected INTO a glorified body? I don't think it does, does it?

The difference with Jesus resurrection was that He was not JUST resurrected but He was resurrected into a glorifed body.

Lazarus was resurrected.
So was Jesus.

But there is a difference.
One was resurrected back from the dead into a physical flesh and blood body. (Lazarus)
One was resurrected back from the dead into a glorified imperishable body. (Jesus.)

Yes, and that would be fine. I can accept two kinds or resurrection but to resuscitate a person dead more than a couple minutes to me is not resuscitation at all.

Quote:
I think resuscitation is not the right term for someone who had been dead for more than a couple of days. "resuscitation" is someone who isn't all the way dead yet... there's still some sort of life, however miniscule it is to snatch onto. With a 3 or 4 day old dead body... whatever life there was is now GONE.

Again, just thinking out loud.
Good thoughts I appreciate your posts. And not just because I wholly agree but because they make logical sense.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:24 PM
 
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Everyone, this thread is about the soul going into the presence of God at the point of death as opposed to the false teaching of soul-sleep. It is not supposed to be about resurrection or resuscitation of the body.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:29 PM
 
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My understanding is "The dead sleep; they know nothing." This is a question that has "bedeviled" people since Christianity began. It is possible to make reasonable arguments for both positions. A similar problem exists on the concepts of eternal security and eternal punishment. I don't know the answers and don't expect to until I am in God's Kingdom and can ask someone who really knows the answers. But then it won't matter...
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:37 PM
 
20,301 posts, read 15,654,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
My understanding is "The dead sleep; they know nothing." This is a question that has "bedeviled" people since Christianity began. It is possible to make reasonable arguments for both positions. A similar problem exists on the concepts of eternal security and eternal punishment. I don't know the answers and don't expect to until I am in God's Kingdom and can ask someone who really knows the answers. But then it won't matter...
Examine the passages that I gave that show the soul in a conscious state both in Heaven and in Hades or Sheol.

Sleep only refers to the body and never the soul.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Everyone, this thread is about the soul going into the presence of God at the point of death as opposed to the false teaching of soul-sleep. It is not supposed to be about resurrection or resuscitation of the body.
And I said it is your premise that another erroneous view proves one to be erroneous. Both your view and the one you present as being in error are erroneous.

Which is why the shift to resurrected versus resuscitated. If that bothers you I will start a new thread.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:48 PM
 
20,301 posts, read 15,654,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And I said it is your premise that another erroneous view proves one to be erroneous. Both your view and the one you present as being in error are erroneous.

Which is why the shift to resurrected versus resuscitated. If that bothers you I will start a new thread.
Yes, go away. You do not hijack someone elses thread.

The soul goes into the presence of the Lord at death. It does not sleep. And I have given the passages that prove it. Now go start your own thread.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,390,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes, go away. You do not hijack someone elses thread.

The soul goes into the presence of the Lord at death. It does not sleep. And I have given the passages that prove it. Now go start your own thread.
Whoa Nelly, I am guilty as sin.....

I admitted it.. you don't have to bash me over the head for me to see the error!

I hope you will join me in my NEW thread
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:50 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Ok, I see what you are saying.
But they were still both resurrected.
.
Its like this...

When someone is in the hospital and is sick and will not get better they have a thing called the "Do Not Resuscitate" form for the family to sign.

They do not have a "Do Not Resurrect" form to sign...

see the difference?
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