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Old 10-28-2009, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 506,402 times
Reputation: 41

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The church age has no end, "Unto him be glory in the CHURCH by Christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, WORLD WITHOUT END." (Eph.3:21). The CHURCH AGE IS THE KINGDOM AGE which has NO END (Isa.9:7).

The CHURCH AGE is not an INTERRUPTION of ISRAEL'S AGE. ISRAEL'S AGE is connected with the OLD COVENANT which is fulfilled in Christ, and came to an END with the DESTRUCTION of the TEMPLE. The Church is now NEW COVENANT ISRAEL (Gal.6:15-16).

The teaching that the CHURCH AGE is a temporary age is classic SCOFIELD DISPENSATIONALISM, and is an insult the the finished work of Christ in bringing Jew and Gentile together and making ONE NEW MAN.


These dispensationalists also make a difference between ‘Israel’ and the ‘Church,’ and even teach that the ‘Church’ is a ‘gentile bride’ and that God has a separate plan in prophecy to work out for each individually.

What sense does this make? How are there two separate and distinct plans for ‘Israel’ and the ‘Church’ individually, when ‘Israel’ as a nation is told to get saved and come into the Church under the Blood of Jesus for the remission if sins in Acts 2:36-38?

If ‘Israel’ and the ‘Church’ are two separate and distinct entities with two separate and distinct plans, then why is God commanding through the Apostle Peter in Acts 2 for ‘Israel’ to enter into the ‘Church?’

Last edited by jeapostle; 10-28-2009 at 03:41 AM.. Reason: add and delete
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:09 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,703,722 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Apparently you did not read my post..

The immovable rock IS JESUS..

The burdensome stone is Judaism of legalism..

I just showed that the NT quotes these passages you say are future yet the NT believes they pertained to then.. are you saying that those who wrote the NT did not realize that this fulfillment was WAY in the future?

Rome was indeed conquered... Do you not know of the Roman Church? The Romans became believers in the very God that the Jews abandoned!

Have you ever read Josephus' writings on the war and destruction that he himself witnessed? Ever wonder why his writings survived all these years? It was a monumental event that Josephus says was the worst in history at that time...

Do you understand that everything you are talking about has nothing to do with what the prophecy stated? The prophecy tells us that when God takes the Israelites out of the nations were they have been scattered, and when God allows them to return to Israel, they will (NEVER) be pulled out of their land ever again. The Romans pulled the Jews out of their land, do you not understand that? Ezekiel 37 was not fulfilled during the Roman occupation.

And this army that will try to push the Jews out of their land, will be destroyed by God, not some other army hundreds of years latter.

And when God destroys this army, it will take the Jews 7 months to bury all of their dead. Nothing like this has ever happened, do you understand this?

And it is true that Jesus is like an immovable rock, however you cannot ignore God's own Words for your own spin. When God tells you Jerusalem, He means Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12:3 clearly states, On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered (against her), I will make (JERUSALEM) an immovable rock for all the nations.
Were not talking about Jesus here, we are talking about (JERUSALEM).

Last edited by Campbell34; 10-28-2009 at 04:20 AM..
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:39 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,703,722 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
The church age has no end, "Unto him be glory in the CHURCH by Christ Jesus throughout ALL AGES, WORLD WITHOUT END." (Eph.3:21). The CHURCH AGE IS THE KINGDOM AGE which has NO END (Isa.9:7).

The CHURCH AGE is not an INTERRUPTION of ISRAEL'S AGE. ISRAEL'S AGE is connected with the OLD COVENANT which is fulfilled in Christ, and came to an END with the DESTRUCTION of the TEMPLE. The Church is now NEW COVENANT ISRAEL (Gal.6:15-16).

The teaching that the CHURCH AGE is a temporary age is classic SCOFIELD DISPENSATIONALISM, and is an insult the the finished work of Christ in bringing Jew and Gentile together and making ONE NEW MAN.


These dispensationalists also make a difference between ‘Israel’ and the ‘Church,’ and even teach that the ‘Church’ is a ‘gentile bride’ and that God has a separate plan in prophecy to work out for each individually.

What sense does this make? How are there two separate and distinct plans for ‘Israel’ and the ‘Church’ individually, when ‘Israel’ as a nation is told to get saved and come into the Church under the Blood of Jesus for the remission if sins in Acts 2:36-38?

If ‘Israel’ and the ‘Church’ are two separate and distinct entities with two separate and distinct plans, then why is God commanding through the Apostle Peter in Acts 2 for ‘Israel’ to enter into the ‘Church?’
Israel is seperate from the church because they have rejected Jesus, yet the Bible clearly shows us that God would use the Jewish people in the time of the end to anger the nations. And in doing so, God will reveal not only to the Jews, but to the world who He is. The church will be gone during the great tribulation, and it will be God and the Jews against the world. Ezekiel chapters 37,38, and 39 tell us how God is going to use Israel and Jerusalem in the last days. The Jews have not returned back to Israel by accident, but are part of Gods bigger plan. For hundreds of years Christian have been telling people that Christ could not return until the Jews had returned to Israel and Jerusalem. The Christian were correct on this, because they believe those Old Testament prophecies.
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Old 10-28-2009, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,136,730 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Yes, and that is why a billion people call Jesus Christ God. Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament "literally". Did you fail to notice that?
No...but you obviously missed alot of other prophecies that Jesus fulfilled "literally"....just as He said He would.
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Old 10-28-2009, 09:43 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,703,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
No...but you obviously missed alot of other prophecies that Jesus fulfilled "literally"....just as He said He would.
Actually I have not missed any of the prophecies Jesus fulfilled "literally".
And neither have I missed how God is going to use the nation of Israel in the time of the end. And that nation will also fulfill those prophecies "literally".
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,424,826 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Do you understand that everything you are talking about has nothing to do with what the prophecy stated? The prophecy tells us that when God takes the Israelites out of the nations were they have been scattered, and when God allows them to return to Israel, they will (NEVER) be pulled out of their land ever again. The Romans pulled the Jews out of their land, do you not understand that? Ezekiel 37 was not fulfilled during the Roman occupation.

And this army that will try to push the Jews out of their land, will be destroyed by God, not some other army hundreds of years latter.

And when God destroys this army, it will take the Jews 7 months to bury all of their dead. Nothing like this has ever happened, do you understand this?

And it is true that Jesus is like an immovable rock, however you cannot ignore God's own Words for your own spin. When God tells you Jerusalem, He means Jerusalem.

Zechariah 12:3 clearly states, On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered (against her), I will make (JERUSALEM) an immovable rock for all the nations.
Were not talking about Jesus here, we are talking about (JERUSALEM).


How can Jerusalem be immovable when it was destroyed since then and one nuclear weapon ...well you get it.. it is figurative for the teachings of Jesus.. the NEW Jerusalem is the gospel! A real city cannot be immovable or indestructible.. that is simple logic.

I don't see how you can read Zech 12 without seeing the correlation between it and the new testament!
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,654,316 times
Reputation: 919
It's amazing how people can believe this pre-trib nonsense? That fact is it's false doctrine and completely unBiblical.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:17 PM
 
5,513 posts, read 4,431,823 times
Reputation: 1803
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post


How can Jerusalem be immovable when it was destroyed since then and one nuclear weapon ...well you get it.. it is figurative for the teachings of Jesus.. the NEW Jerusalem is the gospel! A real city cannot be immovable or indestructible.. that is simple logic.

I don't see how you can read Zech 12 without seeing the correlation between it and the new testament!
My bible says a very heavy stone not immovable. Jerusalem is its people v.8. That is God's people - the Jews. Even if it was movable the point is that God will destroy those nations that try to move it - they won't suceed because God intervenes. This city, if immovable, is because of God not the city itself.

I think Campell's point also is that since it was destroyed later (from Zechariah's time -the last time 70 AD) it cannot be talking about these verses.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,424,826 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
My bible says a very heavy stone not immovable. Jerusalem is its people v.8. That is God's people - the Jews. Even if it was movable the point is that God will destroy those nations that try to move it - they won't suceed because God intervenes. This city, if immovable, is because of God not the city itself.

I think Campell's point also is that since it was destroyed later (from Zechariah's time -the last time 70 AD) it cannot be talking about these verses.
However we see that it is the gospel of Christ which is immovable and is a very heave stone.. the cornerstone in fact.

Ephesians 2:19-22 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Notice that Zechariah distinguishes Jerusalem from Judah? Do you understand why?

Isaiah 8:14 "Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Matt. 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: "'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:07 AM
 
20,396 posts, read 15,765,671 times
Reputation: 7566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
I am well aware of the pretrib position you do not need to answer with an outline of the events as you see them.

Your first paragraph did not answer the question - The 'end' means termination not interuption. If the disciples are refering to the end of the OT age Jesus did not even answer their question (because he is referring to the church age and the 2nd coming in verses 4-36) and there would be no 7 years remaining because the word 'end' was used.

Regarding the day and hour - I am not hung up on the hypostatic union of Christ or his ontology - but the fact that even in his humanity he should have known because of the 7 year trib. He even says '...immediately after the tribulation of those days... the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven...' So he knows when the 2nd coming is.
Jesus was not refering to the church age. He was refering to the Tribulation. The End of the Tribulation is the End of the age of Israel. Matthew chapters 24 and 25 have nothing to do with the church. They are refering to the Tribulation, and therefore, to Israel. The signs of the end of the Age, refers to the end of the age of Israel, which is the end of the Tribulation. Not the end of the church-age.

I have already explained in the previous post why the age of Israel was interupted and why it will resume as the tribulation. I have already explained that Matthew 24 and 25 refer to Israel during the tribulation and not to the end of the church age. If you do not understand what was presented in that post, then there is nothing else that you will understand concerning this subject.

Again, Jesus said that no one knows the day or the hour. That was a warning for the Tribulational saints to be paying attention and to be prepared for the second coming of Christ to put an end to the tribulation, and so they would be prepared to enter into the kingdom at His arrival.
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