U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-12-2009, 11:44 AM
 
20,338 posts, read 15,721,845 times
Reputation: 7482

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gideon7620 View Post
Gideon said, The pre-tribulation rapture is abusive, primarily because it pressures people to give more money and of their physical, emotional and spiritual energies to the church. Darby and Scofield profited greatly from this heresy they created. Churches still profit from it greatly, as they warn People to do all they can for the Jesus (the church), because he could come at any moment, since the ascention, they falsely have claimed for nearly 160 years or so. It was a fear tactic, used to motivate people to give of all there resouces, while they could, lest Jesus come to them as a thief; This is a lie also. For Jesus does not come to the believer as a theif. Darbyism is filled with lies that were designed to cause fear.

The thing we should fear, as described in II Thes 2 is following Darbyism, it has an eternally dangerous consequence that may go along with it for some.
Your hostility toward the pre-tribulational rapture, which is clearly taught in the Bible, is obvious, as is your ignorance of it. The word of God is always under attack from those such as yourself. It is the objective of Satan to cause confusion and sow discord among believers in Christ.

Rapture: 1 Thess 4:13-17; John 14:1-3; I Cor 15:51-53; Phil 3:21

Second Advent: Matthew 24:29,30; Rev 19:11-16; Zech. 14:3-7

The contrast between the two events is obvious, except to those who will not see.


The church is in Heaven during the Tribulation. The bride (church) is shown in Heaven in Revelation. 19:7,8.

At the rapture, believers are taken from the earth. 1 Thess. 4:16-18

At the Second Advent, it is unbelievers that are taken off the earth. Matthew 24:37-43.

The simple fact of the matter is that, despite the scripture that clearly delineates between the pre-Tribulational rapture or resurrection of the Church, and the Second Advent of Christ, where the Church returns with Christ, there are always going to be those who deny it, who deregard it, who are hostile toward it. Such as in your case, in which you carry your argument with the church over to the Bible.

The truth concerning the pre-Tribulational nature of the rapture is not nullified by those who deny it. It is simply denied. Therefore, carry on in your denial. It changes nothng.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-13-2009, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Your hostility toward the pre-tribulational rapture, which is clearly taught in the Bible, is obvious, as is your ignorance of it. The word of God is always under attack from those such as yourself. It is the objective of Satan to cause confusion and sow discord among believers in Christ.

Rapture: 1 Thess 4:13-17; John 14:1-3; I Cor 15:51-53; Phil 3:21

Second Advent: Matthew 24:29,30; Rev 19:11-16; Zech. 14:3-7

The contrast between the two events is obvious, except to those who will not see.


The church is in Heaven during the Tribulation. The bride (church) is shown in Heaven in Revelation. 19:7,8.

At the rapture, believers are taken from the earth. 1 Thess. 4:16-18

At the Second Advent, it is unbelievers that are taken off the earth. Matthew 24:37-43.

The simple fact of the matter is that, despite the scripture that clearly delineates between the pre-Tribulational rapture or resurrection of the Church, and the Second Advent of Christ, where the Church returns with Christ, there are always going to be those who deny it, who deregard it, who are hostile toward it. Such as in your case, in which you carry your argument with the church over to the Bible.

The truth concerning the pre-Tribulational nature of the rapture is not nullified by those who deny it. It is simply denied. Therefore, carry on in your denial. It changes nothng.

Why do you always say YOUR view is CLEARLY taught in scripture? Seems fishy to me!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 846,174 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
(to Mike555
Why do you always say YOUR view is CLEARLY taught in scripture? Seems fishy to me!
You can rest assured he would quote Scripture that CLEARLY taught what he says if he had any. Hopefully that fact as a seed will eventually spring forth, reaching his consciousness and inspiring him to search for a truly Scripural understanding rather than one that relies on men's words handed down for us to be intimidated into believing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2009, 03:17 PM
 
10,219 posts, read 10,596,849 times
Reputation: 3060
The rapture is a total fraud and a total phony doctrine. The sooner naive Christians wake up and realize this fact the sooner they can go about the business of living a productive Christian life that will inevitably lead to their natural death and spiritual ascension into the kingdom of God. Christians reading this post who are beguiled by the rapture read this and get the real truth about the rapture:

The Rapture—A Popular but False Doctrine! > September/October 2008 > World News & Prophecy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2009, 08:26 PM
 
20,338 posts, read 15,721,845 times
Reputation: 7482
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
The rapture is a total fraud and a total phony doctrine. The sooner naive Christians wake up and realize this fact the sooner they can go about the business of living a productive Christian life that will inevitably lead to their natural death and spiritual ascension into the kingdom of God. Christians reading this post who are beguiled by the rapture read this and get the real truth about the rapture:

The Rapture—A Popular but False Doctrine! > September/October 2008 > World News & Prophecy
Very simply, while the Tribulation is taking place on the earth, the Church is seen in Heaven in Revelation 19:7. The church is the bride. And has been married to Christ. Revelation 19:11 and following, show Christ getting ready to return to the earth for the second advent, and the church returning with Him.

And here is how the Church came to be in Heaven. 1 Thess. 4:13-17 and John 14:1-3.

Anyone with more then a thimbleful of knowledge about the word of God should understand that the rapture is pre-Tribulational.

The Rapture of the Church
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2009, 08:37 PM
 
10,219 posts, read 10,596,849 times
Reputation: 3060
Quote:
Very simply, while the Tribulation is taking place on the earth, the Church is seen in Heaven in Revelation 19:7. The church is the bride. And has been married to Christ. Revelation 19:11 and following, show Christ getting ready to return to the earth for the second advent, and the church returning with Him.
Fantasy--pure fantasy. Like an xBox action adventure game. Christians who debate within themselves on whether they're wasting their time waiting around for the rapture might want to read this and let the Word of God speak the truth about the matter:

Pre-Trib Rapture Is False Doctrine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2009, 08:38 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,532,990 times
Reputation: 144
I agree with Mike555 that there is a pretribulation rapture, but as it is on God to cause the increase as all wisdom comes from the Lord, I could not have come to that agreement.

So ask the Lord Jesus Christ for wisdom in the reading of His words in the King James Bible as He promised that all those that seek, shall find.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2009, 08:45 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,532,990 times
Reputation: 144
Look at how God addressed this church in Thyatira with exhortations and a warning to be ready as the chaste bride for the Bridegroom.

Revelation 2: 18And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Then read this exhortation to the church at Philadelphia:

Revelation 3: 7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Sounds like they will be some of the saints that will be coming back with Jesus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2009, 10:53 PM
 
10,219 posts, read 10,596,849 times
Reputation: 3060
Quote:
2Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Notice it was ONLY the members of the Church of Thyatira that committed adultery that would experience "great tribulation" NOT "THE" Great Tribulation! "THE Great Tribulation" is never once mentioned in the Bible.

Quote:
10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly:
Notice Jesus said He was going to come quickly. Would Jesus tell the people of His day that He was coming quickly and then leave them sitting around for 2000+ years waiting for Him. The old argument, "Well, a thousand years is as a day to the Lord" just doesn't hold up. When Jesus gives warnings He certainly doesn't frame them in a time span that His people would totally misunderstand. "Quickly" in human parlance means just that: moving with speed; rapidly. Is 2000 years and counting rapid by any sane definition of the word?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2009, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Very simply, while the Tribulation is taking place on the earth, the Church is seen in Heaven in Revelation 19:7. The church is the bride. And has been married to Christ. Revelation 19:11 and following, show Christ getting ready to return to the earth for the second advent, and the church returning with Him.

And here is how the Church came to be in Heaven. 1 Thess. 4:13-17 and John 14:1-3.

Anyone with more then a thimbleful of knowledge about the word of God should understand that the rapture is pre-Tribulational.

The Rapture of the Church
Quick question for you Mike...from the Lady

According to Revelation 1:19 ("Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.) Revelation is a compilation of things past, present, and future to the writer of the book. Can you outline which parts of Revelation were past and present to the writer of the book and which parts of Revelation are future?

Thanks

EDIT: Nevermind.. I'm gonna start a new thread because the answer may not fit this thread... Look for it though because I really want to know what you think.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top