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Old 11-19-2009, 01:33 AM
 
32 posts, read 28,921 times
Reputation: 13

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Fella, I don't give a flying fig newton what you abhor. Revelation 19:7 shows the church-the bride, in Heaven during the Tribulation, and in Revelation 19:11 Christ is getting ready to make His return to the earth to put an end to the Tribulation. And the church returns with Him. I have given the scripture verses in other posts. Now that means that the church was previously raptured. Your denials, and your hostility toward the pre-Tribulational rapture are of no concern to me. The Scriptures are clear about the rapture. There are many like yourself who refuse to accept it. There are those who have the sense to recognize the truth concerning its revelation in the Scriptures. Now take your Gideon says this, and Gideon says that, and Gideon on out of here. Gitty up!!!
The book of Revelation is not written in chronological order of events.

You have cited 1 cor 15:52 in some of your posts. Paul makes sure we know what he has been writing about occurs at the LAST TRUMP.


There are 7 trumpets in the book of Revelation. What Paul describes in 1 cor 15 :52 happens at the 7th trumpet.[last trump]

There is no pre-tribulation rapture and it is not taught in the Bible. It is a false doctrine of men and their tradition.
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:12 AM
 
392 posts, read 481,087 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfixer View Post
The book of Revelation is not written in chronological order of events.

You have cited 1 cor 15:52 in some of your posts. Paul makes sure we know what he has been writing about occurs at the LAST TRUMP.


There are 7 trumpets in the book of Revelation. What Paul describes in 1 cor 15 :52 happens at the 7th trumpet.[last trump]

There is no pre-tribulation rapture and it is not taught in the Bible. It is a false doctrine of men and their tradition.

Gideon said, ah, Amen/ that is why christ takes over the kingdom here also, the saints rise to receive their rewards, and the kings of the earth become angry, because king Jesus is back to put them in their places, and end time for them as they know it. We see the same event in Revelation 6 and 7 as the men in fear hide in the caves for fear of Him whom sits on the throne. They even cry unto the rocks, fall on us. We also see the darkening of the heavens and stars falling, the last sign before he arrives and takes the throne of earth's rule. In 7 we see the multitude of risen saints, and those that overcame the mark of the beast by the blood of the lamb. Revelation 14, 18, 19, and 20 depict the same scenes also as does Daniel 7 and Revelation 11 etc... The Bible often repeats itself to give us more exposition as I stated before. These are multiple description of the same event and not four first resurrections as Mike555 has claimed in The Blessed Hope of Believer's thread.

Last edited by Gideon7620; 11-19-2009 at 06:41 AM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 06:17 AM
 
392 posts, read 481,087 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
See. I said you were hostile. Didn't I say you were hostile? You are soooo hostile. I really recommend you go have a cookie. Chips Ahoy are good. Oreos will work too. But my recommendation would be to go with the Chips Ahoy.
Gideon said, so you find truth to be hostile? Your accusitory attitude and ignorance the of facts place you in a hostile position. Learn some facts then come back again and quit worshipping vain fables of men and the men whom have led you on. Quit blowing all that meaningless hot air and get to I Thes 4 for us. You made a statement, now prove it to us in a fashion that is respected by sensable men and women, "exposition."

Last edited by Gideon7620; 11-19-2009 at 07:03 AM..
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:09 PM
 
392 posts, read 481,087 times
Reputation: 30
Some truths you need to know about Scofield, One of the Fathers of Fundamentalism, pre-tribulationism, and premillenialism. This is a man worshipped are revered by fundamentalists, as well as others, primarily the pre-tribulation camp. We have seen by experience in many Fundamentalist churches, the apples do not fall far from the fathers or trees. Is it any wonder, these churches have destroyed families and communities in America. Look no further, Isaiah tells us these wicked false shepards are the blame for the demise of a nation. The wicked sin in society is only an outward manifestation of their falsehood. They have led masses proselyte and into utter darkness.This movement of deception is not by chance but by design/ Scofield was financed, supported, and commissioned by his illuminist buddies, in order to bring damnable heresies in the church. The heresies were designed to promote the church into accepting the false Messiah, which would come before the Great tribulation. Once God's strong delusion would strike, it would be too late for the deceived masses to see truth.

Scofield: The Man Behind The Myth

Last edited by Gideon7620; 11-21-2009 at 10:38 PM..
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 514,902 times
Reputation: 41
If the rapture is Pretribulation, then it had to occur before the TRIBULATION of the FIRST CENTURY. The Tribulation had to happen, and did happen, before that generation passed. (Matt.24:34).
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,720,765 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfixer View Post
The book of Revelation is not written in chronological order of events.

You have cited 1 cor 15:52 in some of your posts. Paul makes sure we know what he has been writing about occurs at the LAST TRUMP.


There are 7 trumpets in the book of Revelation. What Paul describes in 1 cor 15 :52 happens at the 7th trumpet.[last trump]

There is no pre-tribulation rapture and it is not taught in the Bible. It is a false doctrine of men and their tradition.
A huge AMEN!
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 863,671 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfixer View Post
The book of Revelation is not written in chronological order of events.

You have cited 1 cor 15:52 in some of your posts. Paul makes sure we know what he has been writing about occurs at the LAST TRUMP.


There are 7 trumpets in the book of Revelation. What Paul describes in 1 cor 15 :52 happens at the 7th trumpet.[last trump]

There is no pre-tribulation rapture and it is not taught in the Bible. It is a false doctrine of men and their tradition.
There also is no quotable portion of Scripture that directly states any of the following 7 points of deception, robbing men from the revelation God gave concerning the days that may well be near at hand:

1.) The term "Rapture" is man-made and does not merely represent harpazo as some claim, because it also commonly includes 2.) the idea of gentiles as a racial group in their version of the Church, 3.) the idea of simultaneously, 4.) instantaneous change, that it will be 5.) the disappearance of this group, which will leave behind 6.) racially defined Jews as 7.) the center of God's plan for the transition into the Millennium. None of this can I verify from Scripture (with some uncertainty over #3.) Put another way, find a clear statement in Bible that actually says any of these 7 things and I will cange my mind (repent) and subject myself to the authority of God's Word, incorporating that change into my confession of faith. I suggest you do the same.

What by comparison is written? Compare the following point for point with the 7 points above: 1.) hard to say...break it down to the categories of whatever components are written, like harpazo, the presence parousia of the Lord, the out resurrection out from aomong the dead, the finishing work or "the perfect man," the manifestation of the sons of God, etc...it is instead 2.) "The Overcomers," "from every tribe and tongue and people and nation;" 3.) and 4.) during "a generation known unto the LORD" (tho' possibly all together) it will be "one by one" 5.) we will appear in his glory 6.) and 7.) from all peoples as the Eclessia, the body of Christ, which is God's instrument at the center of His plan to rule in all the earth, and eventually all the cosmos.

I would like to also add that a "literal" interpretation of some of these things as occuring in the past as the Preterist position point out, ought to be retained as valid, as well as Historicist insights. The use of these words to affect our relationship with God and one another, the Ideal or Symbolic interpretation is also of paramount importance. These things are not to be understood just at one level without being robbed of much of the richness of God's Word.

Last edited by JamesMRohde; 11-23-2009 at 10:04 PM..
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:12 PM
 
392 posts, read 481,087 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
If the rapture is Pretribulation, then it had to occur before the TRIBULATION of the FIRST CENTURY. The Tribulation had to happen, and did happen, before that generation passed. (Matt.24:34).
Gideon said,
Incredible point, never thought of that. I think it is so amazing how each individual contributes to all the facts.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:46 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 12,893,568 times
Reputation: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
If the rapture is Pretribulation, then it had to occur before the TRIBULATION of the FIRST CENTURY. The Tribulation had to happen, and did happen, before that generation passed. (Matt.24:34).
The tribulation has not occurred yet of Christ's brethren. It lasts 3 1/2 years.

And this takes place immediately after the tribulation:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the
sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth
mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great
sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four
winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31 KJV)

That never happened.
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:11 PM
 
392 posts, read 481,087 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The tribulation has not occurred yet of Christ's brethren. It lasts 3 1/2 years.

And this takes place immediately after the tribulation:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the
sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth
mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great
sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four
winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31 KJV)

That never happened.

Gideon said,
But his point was this generation would not pass unil all these things be fulfilled. Let's face it, Pre-tribulationism is heresy and it was created by wicked men, as the illuminists, Darby, and Scofield. Fundamentalists can not deny the fact that Scofield and Darby were shisters, nothing more nothing less. Neither can they deny the fact that those whom vehemently guard these falacies as truths have deeply rooted issues also; that is pure bible with much doctrine and scripture to back that statement. It boils down to a heart matter. Jesus is not coming any time soon. I guarantee you he can not come at any moment. I believe his point is that we have entered the end of the beginning of sorrows, which I tend to agree with.
I agree, we must first see the beginning and end of the Great Tribulation, which last 3.5 years, then will the son of Man come the only second time he is to come.
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