Regarding the Pre-Tribulational Rapture (Gospel, Revelation, preach, Holy Spirit)

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Some believe that when God gave a vision to His prophets, He showed them things to come in a view and a context that they could understand. Thus horses, and bucklers.

Hi Campbell34,

You may believe that but again a literal interpreation it is not.

And sometimes God uses common Biblical names from the past, to describe a different place that may be similar, yet found in a different location in the future. In the Old Testament it speaks of Babylon. Yet in the New Testament it speaks of "MYSTERY BABYLON". Clearly not the same Babylon, and clearly not to found in the old location. I believe God writes the Bible this way to make it easy for non believers to dismiss the Biblical account.

Yes when its expressly stated as a vision, its a vision. Its no mystery if you are a bible scholar. Its the same imagery descriptive of the Aaronic priesthood from the ephod, to the image on the forehead described in Exodus 28. The curtain on the temple was known as a Babylonian curtain.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

The 70 weeks are not determined by time, but rather events. And those events are based on the Jewish people, and Jerusalem. And to date, only 69 weeks have been fulfilled. It's not a question of being brain washed, it's a question of following the Biblical prophecy. And I have been doing that, for almost 40 years. And the only thing that ends this debate, is your lack of knowledge.

Hi Campbell34,

Nonsense. Complete utter nonsense.

Jeremiah 28

7 Nevertheless hear now this word that I speak in your hearing and in the hearing of all the people: 8 The prophets who have been before me and before you of old prophesied against many countries and great kingdoms—of war and disaster and pestilence. 9 As for the prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, the prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent.”

...
15 Then the prophet Jeremiah said to Hananiah the prophet, “Hear now, Hananiah, the LORD has not sent you, but you make this people trust in a lie. 16 Therefore thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will cast you from the face of the earth. This year you shall die, because you have taught rebellion against the LORD.’”
17 So Hananiah the prophet died the same year in the seventh month.

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

The 70 weeks are not determined by time, but rather events. And those events are based on the Jewish people, and Jerusalem. And to date, only 69 weeks have been fulfilled. It's not a question of being brain washed, it's a question of following the Biblical prophecy. And I have been doing that, for almost 40 years. And the only thing that ends this debate, is your lack of knowledge.

Nowhere---I repeat, NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that Jesus would fulfill only 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy and that the 70th week would stretch across 4 or 5 or 6 thousand years to find fulfillment. You have been deceived, my friend, by these airhead prophecy pimps on TV who ply their lies to gullible Christians for filthy lucre (cash, dough, moolah, "green"). The rapture, 7-year tribulation and some lunatic calling himself "antichrist" who gets his head turned into a bullet-ridden wiffle ball and then miraculously raises back to life are pure fairy tales. Seriously, how any rational adult actually falls for this utter rot is a bigger mystery to me than, well..... Mystery Babylon. PT Barnum said it well, "There's a sucker born every minute". In the Christian circle the rate, sadly, is more like a dozen born every second. (shakes head in astonishment).

[jeapostle]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

The 70 weeks are not determined by time, but rather events. And those events are based on the Jewish people, and Jerusalem. And to date, only 69 weeks have been fulfilled. It's not a question of being brain washed, it's a question of following the Biblical prophecy. And I have been doing that, for almost 40 years. And the only thing that ends this debate, is your lack of knowledge.

You mean you been studying this for forty years, and you still don't have it right?

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Nowhere---I repeat, NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that Jesus would fulfill only 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy and that the 70th week would stretch across 4 or 5 or 6 thousand years to find fulfillment. You have been deceived, my friend, by these airhead prophecy pimps on TV who ply their lies to gullible Christians for filthy lucre (cash, dough, moolah, "green"). The rapture, 7-year tribulation and some lunatic calling himself "antichrist" who gets his head turned into a bullet-ridden wiffle ball and then miraculously raises back to life are pure fairy tales. Seriously, how any rational adult actually falls for this utter rot is a bigger mystery to me than, well..... Mystery Babylon. PT Barnum said it well, "There's a sucker born every minute". In the Christian circle the rate, sadly, is more like a dozen born every second. (shakes head in astonishment).

Hi thrillobyte,


How do you like gap number 2? The underlined portion was quoted by Christ as being fulfilled. Does it read like a two thousand year gap?

Zechariah 13

7 “ Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
Against the Man who is My Companion,”
Says the LORD of hosts.

“ Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered;
Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the LORD,

“ That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”
AND pay particular attention to the fact that events are being skipped over because in 70 AD 1.1 million Jews perished which certainly could qualify as 2/3 being wiped out in that generation. So even this "events" argument bunk.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

The 70 weeks are not determined by time, but rather events. And those events are based on the Jewish people, and Jerusalem. And to date, only 69 weeks have been fulfilled. It's not a question of being brain washed, it's a question of following the Biblical prophecy. And I have been doing that, for almost 40 years. And the only thing that ends this debate, is your lack of knowledge.

Greetings Campbell34,

Let me point out again that you and all like you never address that scripture. Let me post it again to remind you that once again this verse is written in invisible ink to end timers. That is just the most devastating one.

26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself

There is no discussion. The last week of the Jews was long ago. Further more, I am the one posting scripture.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by gwynedd1

Hi Campbell34,

Nonsense. Complete utter nonsense.

Jeremiah 28

7 Nevertheless hear now this word that I speak in your hearing and in the hearing of all the people: 8 The prophets who have been before me and before you of old prophesied against many countries and great kingdoms—of war and disaster and pestilence. 9 As for the prophet who prophesies of peace, when the word of the prophet comes to pass, the prophet will be known as one whom the LORD has truly sent.”

...
15 Then the prophet Jeremiah said to Hananiah the prophet, “Hear now, Hananiah, the LORD has not sent you, but you make this people trust in a lie. 16 Therefore thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will cast you from the face of the earth. This year you shall die, because you have taught rebellion against the LORD.’”
17 So Hananiah the prophet died the same year in the seventh month.

And your point is?

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by jeapostle

You mean you been studying this for forty years, and you still don't have it right?

That is sad....very sad to be deceived for so long

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by gwynedd1

Greetings Campbell34,

Let me point out again that you and all like you never address that scripture. Let me post it again to remind you that once again this verse is written in invisible ink to end timers. That is just the most devastating one.

26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself

There is no discussion. The last week of the Jews was long ago. Further more, I am the one posting scripture.

Yes Christ sacrificed Himself, yet the full prophecy has not been fulfilled, and can only be fulfilled in the future. The Old Testament points out that will occur on (God's third day).

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

I have read Ezekiel and I don't see it. Also, I didn't mean that the idea was a bad outrageous just that I had never heard of that before.


See this is where we differ. I see Jesus as the ruler on the throne of David.. you see David himself. I see that it was the first century christians that were the subject of 1 Thess. after all they were the ones being spoken/written to.



I appreciate your candidness as I like to learn all points of view.

I will say though that I hadn't heard this version but since then I have read about it on the berean church website, but as I read it I still don't see the case for David to be reanimated to rule. The bible makes it clear that Jesus is from the line of David, doesn't it? So most people I know think that Jesus is the "new David" not that the "old David" will rule again.

This view of David being reanimated goes along with the same thought that Elijah will be reanimated and come again before the great and terrible day of the Lord...which is really silly since Jesus already told us that John the Baptist was the "Elijah" that was to come and he came in the 1st century. Futurists become blind when it comes to that verse also.