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Old 10-23-2009, 06:24 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Mikey...we've been through this before....there is no Plan B for Israel....God finished them off in 70 AD....their covenant is done and over with....we have a NEW covenant now and for you to think there will be anything more is just nonsense and not scriptural. There is no 2,000 + year gap between the 69th and 70th week...in the words of Jesus...It is Finished.
The scriptures are plain and you choose to ignore every thing that is in the passage I just gave. That is your choice. It is a denial of the truth, but it is your choice. You absolutely refuse to acknowledge dispensations or ages even though the Bible states it plainly right there in Ephesians 3. That is your choice. Someone else reading it may grasp it. You purposely will not grasp it. Again, that is your choice.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:27 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,674,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Well then it seems that Jesus and the Holy Spirit fit that criteria.. interesting.

To Christy: It doesn't matter to me much either as it was already fulfilled I was just curious.
How could the Holy Spirit fit that criteria? The Holy Spirit came after Jesus ascended into heaven. And the Holy Spirit was never put to death, nor did the Holy Spirit have a human body that required resurrection. How can you suggest the event was already fulfilled, when you don't even know who the two prophets are?
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:45 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,674,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
The book of Revelation is a book of signs & symbols....did you miss that at the beginning?

The events described are symbols for something else....they are not to be taken word for word literally.
If you believe that, then the Book of Revelation would be nothing but a Book of nonsense. Yet with out the Book of Revelation, many of the other prophecies of the Bible could not be understood. I believe your take on the Book of Revelation has come about from a rather youthful approach. And certainly not from any deep understanding of the Text itself.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:54 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,674,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Yes, the realization that grown, supposedly mature adults actually fall for all those nightmarish, horror movie special-effects images in Revelation literally happening is so mind-boggling to me that my jaw drops to the ground. I mean I can understand fresh, new-converted "green" Christians in their teens and early twenties buying into that nonsense, but many futurists on this board are in their 50's and 60's or older. That's the truly shocking part. My sense is that more than one has also been taken to the cleaners for thousands of dollars by Nigerian citizens who have e-mailed them with offers to split $12,500,000 being held "in trust".
My first encounter with the Anti Christ of the Book of Revelation did not come from my father or mother. Neither understood the Bible way back then. MY first teaching about the Anti Christ to come, came in a vision when I was 4 years old. I did not know what I was seeing, yet understood years later. The Bible is not a make believe story Book. And if I'm guilty of being a futurists. Then you will have to blame it on the one who gave me that vision, when I was 4 years old. I'm now 59 years old, yet I recall that vision like it was yesterday.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
How could the Holy Spirit fit that criteria? The Holy Spirit came after Jesus ascended into heaven. And the Holy Spirit was never put to death, nor did the Holy Spirit have a human body that required resurrection. How can you suggest the event was already fulfilled, when you don't even know who the two prophets are?
Jesus possessed the holy Spirit in himself.. when he died he gave up his spirit.. that means both were resurrected. right?

I don't care who the witnesses are just a facetious question.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 505,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Age of Israel was interrupted by the dispensation of the church, in which we are now living. The Church-age began on the day of Pentecost 50 days after the resurrection of Christ, as mentioned in Acts 2:1. Old Testament prophecy skipped right over the Church-age, since the mystery of the church age had not been made known in Old Testament times.

Eph.3:1 For this reason, I Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-2) if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace (dispensation of the church) which was given to me for you; 3) that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery (the Church-age), as I wrote before in brief. 4) And by referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5) which in other generations (dispensations-ages) was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6)to be specific that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7) of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8) To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given , to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9) and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery ( THE DISPENSATION OF THE CHURCH) which for AGES HAS BEEN HIDDEN IN GOD, who created all things; 10) in order that the manifold wisdom of God might NOW be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

Once the dispensation of the church has been terminated by the rapture- the exit resurrection of the church, then the 70th week which remains to Israel will begin. This is the tribulation, the time of Jacobs trouble. This is scripture. It has absolutely nothing to do with ''prophecy pimps.'' Separate the fact that there are people who will try to make money or a reputation from the Bible, from what the Bible itself says.
The age of Israel (fleshly) ended with the fulfillment and passing of the law in 70 A.D. The believing Jews, along with the Gentiles, entered into the New Covenant fulfilling Jer.31:31. The CHURCH is now the ISRAEL OF GOD through the new creation (Gal.6:16). The TRUE JEW is one circumcised in the heart and not in the flesh (Rom.2:28-29). The Mystery of the Church revealed to Paul is the Mystery of the kingdom that was hidden from fleshly people, but revealed by the Holy Spirit. The kingdom was a mystery to Old Covenant Israel. They were looking for an earthly kingdom that comes with obseravtion, but Jesus said it would not come that way (Luke 17:20). This is the same thing that you and other futurists are waiting for. You have the same hope that Old Covenant, fleshly Israel looked for, and their RELIGIOUS leaders hoped for. They missed the kingdom because they were looking for the wrong thing.

The dispensation of the church is the same as the kingdom, WORLD WITHOUT END (Eph.3:21). The so-called "dispensation of the Church" has no end, because the Kingdom has no end (Isa.9:7).

Jesus chose 12 Apostles because he was laying the foundation for a NEW SPIRITUAL ISRAEL through the NEW COVENANT.

There is no Gap in the 70 weeks. They are continuous and end with the end of Old Covenant, Fleshly Israel. We are now living in the kingdom age, which is Righteousness, Peace, and Joy in the Holy Ghost. (Rom.14:17).

Last edited by jeapostle; 10-23-2009 at 07:00 PM.. Reason: Mispell
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
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The pre-trib is false doctrine. Anyone that takes the time to study this fact will understand. Heresy, Heresy, Heresy!
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:35 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
The age of Israel (fleshly) ended with the fulfillment and passing of the law in 70 A.D. The believing Jews, along with the Gentiles, entered into the New Covenant fulfilling Jer.31:31. The CHURCH is now the ISRAEL OF GOD through the new creation (Gal.6:16). The TRUE JEW is one circumcised in the heart and not in the flesh (Rom.2:28-29). The Mystery of the Church revealed to Paul is the Mystery of the kingdom that was hidden from fleshly people, but revealed by the Holy Spirit. The kingdom was a mystery to Old Covenant Israel. They were looking for an earthly kingdom that comes with obseravtion, but Jesus said it would not come that way (Luke 17:20). This is the same thing that you and other futurists are waiting for. You have the same hope that Old Covenant, fleshly Israel looked for, and their RELIGIOUS leaders hoped for. They missed the kingdom because they were looking for the wrong thing.

The dispensation of the church is the same as the kingdom, WORLD WITHOUT END (Eph.3:21). The so-called "dispensation of the Church" has no end, because the Kingdom has no end (Isa.9:7).

Jesus chose 12 Apostles because he was laying the foundation for a NEW SPIRITUAL ISRAEL through the NEW COVENANT.

There is no Gap in the 70 weeks. They are continuous and end with the end of Old Covenant, Fleshly Israel. We are now living in the kingdom age, which is Righteousness, Peace, and Joy in the Holy Ghost. (Rom.14:17).
Preterists believe in replacement theology. This is completey unscriptural. It completely denies the eternal unconditional promises that God made to Abraham and his descendents. The New Covenant to Israel has its fulfillment with the second advent of Christ.

God deals with Israel and the church separately. Once the church is taken off the earth, then God will turn His attention back to Israel.
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Old 10-23-2009, 09:47 PM
 
10,182 posts, read 10,544,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
My first encounter with the Anti Christ of the Book of Revelation did not come from my father or mother. Neither understood the Bible way back then. MY first teaching about the Anti Christ to come, came in a vision when I was 4 years old. I did not know what I was seeing, yet understood years later. The Bible is not a make believe story Book. And if I'm guilty of being a futurists. Then you will have to blame it on the one who gave me that vision, when I was 4 years old. I'm now 59 years old, yet I recall that vision like it was yesterday.
Campbell, for the love of Mike (not Mike555) please listen to yourself. You're 59 years old, a supposedly rational mature adult. You've been exposed to every kind of scam, every type of shyster, every sort of con game that exists. You know better. Now you're telling us that at the tender age of four, when you were barely old enough to pull your pants down and climb onto a toilet, much less putting yourself in danger of accidentally getting flushed because of your size---you actually expect us to believe that God gave a four-year-old virtual "baby" a vision of a book in the Bible that is so complex that even venerable theologians get into fistfights over its interpretation?????

WHY!????

Why on earth would God, the most rational, logical person in the universe give a snotty-nosed little child a vision of the horror of Revelation---knowing that one so young could never in a million years begin to comprehend it??? It just doesn't pass the smell test. At the very most, it was a bad dream that over the years as you grew and became indoctrinated in the futurism tripe you obviously started linking all this nonsense with a harmless, albeit vivid nightmare you had, just like all kids have. It was no vision from God. My gosh, Campbell, you're an intelligent middle-aged man bordering on seniorhood.
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 505,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Preterists believe in replacement theology. This is completey unscriptural. It completely denies the eternal unconditional promises that God made to Abraham and his descendents. The New Covenant to Israel has its fulfillment with the second advent of Christ.

God deals with Israel and the church separately. Once the church is taken off the earth, then God will turn His attention back to Israel.
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall BE TAKEN FROM YOU, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matt.21:43). SOUNDS LIKE REPLACEMENT TO ME, and it's SCRIPTURAL!!!!

Its amazing you didn't comment or refute any of the verses I gave, you just condemned the Preterist Position and made the statement that God deals with the church differently than Israel WITHOUT ANT SCRIPTURAL PROOF. AMAZING

Let me say another thing about the promises to Abraham and his descendents. "And if ye be Christ's, then you are ABRAHAM's SEED, and HEIRS according to the promise." (Gal.3:29). We are the SEED (Descendents) of Abraham through faith! This is the Apostolic interpretation of the fulfillment of the promises, and it is the CORRECT ONE.

Last edited by jeapostle; 10-23-2009 at 10:45 PM.. Reason: Add
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