Regarding the Pre-Tribulational Rapture (pray, prophecies, testament, spiritual)

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by jeapostle

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall BE TAKEN FROM YOU, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (Matt.21:43). SOUNDS LIKE REPLACEMENT TO ME, and it's SCRIPTURAL!!!!

Its amazing you didn't comment or refute any of the verses I gave, you just condemned the Preterist Position and made the statement that God deals with the church differently than Israel WITHOUT ANT SCRIPTURAL PROOF. AMAZING

Let me say another thing about the promises to Abraham and his descendents. "And if ye be Christ's, then you are ABRAHAM's SEED, and HEIRS according to the promise." (Gal.3:29). We are the SEED (Descendents) of Abraham through faith! This is the Apostolic interpretation of the fulfillment of the promises, and it is the CORRECT ONE.

I refer you to my thread ''Dispensations in the Bible'' to which I just posted new information. Post #47. Look also at the very first post on the thread.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

Jesus possessed the holy Spirit in himself.. when he died he gave up his spirit.. that means both were resurrected. right?

I don't care who the witnesses are just a facetious question.

The Holy Spirit is not a physical body, and the Holy Spirit was not resurrected when Christ was resurrected. Also, the two prophets of Revelation will be killed off by the beast of Revelation, and (THEIR CORPSES) will lie in the main street of the city for three and half days. And Scripture states their bodies will be allowed to lay in the street so that the inhabitants of the earth can gloat over them. Yet after the three and a half days, the breath of life will enter their bodies once again and they will stand back on their feet. And great fear will come on all who see them. Also both of these men will be wearing sackcloth for the entire time they are on the earth.

We are speaking about two physical beings here. Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit will not fit this prophecy.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

If you believe that, then the Book of Revelation would be nothing but a Book of nonsense. Yet with out the Book of Revelation, many of the other prophecies of the Bible could not be understood. I believe your take on the Book of Revelation has come about from a rather youthful approach. And certainly not from any deep understanding of the Text itself.

It's not a book of nonsense but a book that was given for the comfort of the people in the 1st century...it applied to them and they understood it perfectly. I also keep it in the context in which it was written...to 1st century people and I don't try to slough it off into the 21st century as so many have done. The prophecies related in the book were completed in the 1st century...there is nothing more for Jesus to accomplish. That is the saddest part....Jesus has finished His job and yet....some are still waiting for the same things the Jews wanted and never received...all they received was condemnation. Perhaps you should take note of the lesson we were given for our instruction.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Campbell, for the love of Mike (not Mike555) please listen to yourself. You're 59 years old, a supposedly rational mature adult. You've been exposed to every kind of scam, every type of shyster, every sort of con game that exists. You know better. Now you're telling us that at the tender age of four, when you were barely old enough to pull your pants down and climb onto a toilet, much less putting yourself in danger of accidentally getting flushed because of your size---you actually expect us to believe that God gave a four-year-old virtual "baby" a vision of a book in the Bible that is so complex that even venerable theologians get into fistfights over its interpretation?????

WHY!????

Why on earth would God, the most rational, logical person in the universe give a snotty-nosed little child a vision of the horror of Revelation---knowing that one so young could never in a million years begin to comprehend it??? It just doesn't pass the smell test. At the very most, it was a bad dream that over the years as you grew and became indoctrinated in the futurism tripe you obviously started linking all this nonsense with a harmless, albeit vivid nightmare you had, just like all kids have. It was no vision from God. My gosh, Campbell, you're an intelligent middle-aged man bordering on seniorhood.

WHY? Because as Jeremiah 6:16 states. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, SAITH THE LORD.

I believe God gave me that vision, so others could know, that the Bible is not a make believe storybook. And God has shown me so much more over the years than that vision. You can believe what you want about it. Yet, if I told you what God did in my adult years. That dream would appear far more believable than anything else I could tell you. I'm 59 years old, and at this age, I'm not going to be making up lies about God. Especially, when I may find myself before Him, much sooner than later.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

It's not a book of nonsense but a book that was given for the comfort of the people in the 1st century...it applied to them and they understood it perfectly. I also keep it in the context in which it was written...to 1st century people and I don't try to slough it off into the 21st century as so many have done. The prophecies related in the book were completed in the 1st century...there is nothing more for Jesus to accomplish. That is the saddest part....Jesus has finished His job and yet....some are still waiting for the same things the Jews wanted and never received...all they received was condemnation. Perhaps you should take note of the lesson we were given for our instruction.

Jesus said, He would return after (all the world) was presented with His Gospel. That did not happen in the day Christ lived. And the Bible clearly tells us, that in the latter days, the Jewish people would return to Israel from a worldwide exile. This worldwide exile has only occured in our time. And prophecy states, that when the Prince would return, He would enter from Jerusalems Eastern Porch Gate. Jerusalem never had an (EASTERN PORCH GATE) until the 1500s. So such a prophecy, could never of been fulfilled in the past. Perhaps, you should read the prophecies of the Bible a little closer.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Jesus said, He would return after (all the world) was presented with His Gospel. That did not happen in the day Christ lived. And the Bible clearly tells us, that in the latter days, the Jewish people would return to Israel from a worldwide exile. This worldwide exile has only occured in our time. And prophecy states, that when the Prince would return, He would enter from Jerusalems Eastern Porch Gate. Jerusalem never had an (EASTERN PORCH GATE) until the 1500s. So such a prophecy, could never of been fulfilled in the past. Perhaps, you should read the prophecies of the Bible a little closer.

Take the "Literal" blinders off and you will find the spiritual meaning of the scriptures that God intended to give us.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by katjonjj

Who are the rulers and authorities in heavenly places?

Where does it say that there is a gap...

Daniel 8:26 and Ezekiel both have orders to seal the vision for it is in the future. but in Rev.22:10 we see that the time is near so the vision should not be sealed...

From Daniel to Revelation was around 400 years but you think from Rev. to now (and still future) is near yet 2000 years have passed??

That is not even remotely possible no matter how you twist the words.

The truth is that the vision was sealed for 400 years then Revelation opened it again because it was near.. as in a couple years away, not 2000.

You assume because the Book of Revelation stated the time is near, it must mean a couple of years? The Book of Revelation tells us, that all this will occur when the nations of the east will be able to field an army of 200 million men. Such an army was not possible in the past. Yet, China stated they could establish such an army in 1960, and of course, that was just 12 years after Israel declared itself a nation. Now you can make all the assumptions you want about the "time is near". Yet I find the numbers far more believable. The Old Testament prophecy stated, that the Jewish people would return to Israel in (THE LATTER DAYS). And Israel declared itself a nation in 1948, an with that fulfillment, we now find ourselves in the latter days. And we also see the nations of the east in a position to raise up a 200 million man army.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

Take the "Literal" blinders off and you will find the spiritual meaning of the scriptures that God intended to give us.

Of course, this is why the Jews did not accept Christ. They were so lost in their spiritual meanings, they could not see the forest from the trees. Jesus fulfilled all the Old Testament prophecies, (LITERALLY). I would say there are some prophecies one could make an arguement for symbolism. Yet the vast majority, will be fulfilled as they are written.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Of course, this is why the Jews did not accept Christ. They were so lost in their spiritual meanings, they could not see the forest from the trees. Jesus fulfilled all the Old Testament prophecies, (LITERALLY). I would say there are some prophecies one could make an arguement for symbolism. Yet the vast majority, will be fulfilled as they are written.

You are very wrong about that....the Jews were in no way "spiritual" which is exactly what Jesus pointed out to them. They looked at the "literal" letter of the law and followed it to a tee without following the spiritual aspects of the law which was love and mercy. It seems you are following in their foot steps and I wish you luck with that.

[twin.spin]

It sure makes for fun reading when the blind argues with the blind..........