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Old 10-24-2009, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 844,552 times
Reputation: 204

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
When I needed a job when I was younger and had just failed a job interview, God spoke to me in a voice and and reminded me I had done everthing but pray about getting a job. So I prayed, and as soon as I said the A of Amen. The phone next to me rang, and the man on the other end of the line asked me if I could start work for their company the next monday morning.

Once when I was praying and thanking God for my life, He spoke to me again, and right while I was in the middle of my prayer. And He told me, my wife was going to have a child. I found out four hours after that encounter. That my wife was pregnant. Yet, I knew she was pregnant even before she knew.

Another time, I got out of my truck and closed the door and told Jesus I loved him. Less than a minute later, a ten inch balloon came down from high up in the sky and squeezed through a 4 inch opening in a gate and almost hit me in the face. I caught the balloon in my hands, and when I turned it over, printed on the other side of the balloon were the words. "I LOVE YOU".

My faith is not built on Hal Lindsey. My faith is built on Jesus Christ. And when so many of my age spent their time getting high or drunk. I spent my time seeking Christ. And I would not trade one day of this world, for my relationship with Him. The prophecies of the Bible will be fulfilled just as the Bible tells us they will be. And according to the Scriptures, the world we find ourselves in will begin to fall apart very soon. And before the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, things here in American will really begin to deteriorate, for the Bible speaks in detail of America's future.
I think there is an unexamined assumption that if we have a relationship with God it automatically means His seal of approval on whatever we believe. To be lifted up in ourselves, that whatever we think we know on a matter is the yea and amen on it, will prevent you from advancing in truth. King James translation calls it, "wise in your own conceits." (Rm 12:16) Concordant Literal Translation says, "Do not come to pass for prudent with yourselves." We are led by hunger. The gift of hunger for the bread of life, to know Him and His Word is one of the best gifts God can give us. And we need to do what Finney said he had tried to do: "Adjust to increasing light as rapidly as possible." The truth is, many are surrounded by a crowd of religious fair-weather friends they don't want to offend. For those that hope in incomes of comfort and positions of importance from religious bureachracies it is doubly hard to go along with progressive discoveries in the Word. Of course, many just don't read Scripture as God gave it to us, book by book, so the contradictions between the traditions of men and the Word of God don't appear so often. They just look up verses to embellish topical sermons. Remember, sincerity is the mask of deceit. If you knew you were deceived you wouldn't be deceived. Honesty and humility is a good start, but it is the truth that dispels error. Consider how many times in connection to "the last days" the promise is to the "wise" rather than the holy or righteous.

We need to understand God relates to us as persons. When I first experienced the Lord it was in the early 70's when the outpouring of the Spirit was often labeled "Jesus' People" for the disenfranchised and "The Charismatic Movement" for those in Institutional Christianity. I regularly went to many different kinds of Christian churches and discovered people with very different, even contradictory ideas from each other, yet the presence of Jesus was manifest from within them. This doesn't mean we dispense with the pursuit of "truth;" but, God has other criteria for intimacy with us. You need to remember knowledge or power is empty without love and God is love. By just staying in your own group and never getting out to visit other believers, at least until you're comfortable and find some fellowship, you continue thinking the way Job described some in his day, "You are the people and wisdom will die with you."

My first break with the way I was raised was when I started reading the Bible, beginning with Matthew, and got no farther than The Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said when you pray, fast, or give in secret your Father in heaven would reward you outwardly. Jesus keeps His word. This was something I could do, not just believe, but I could "work" His word. The other beginning was when I started looking for a verse that said something to prove a pre tribulation rapture. I had never heard, even disparagingly, of anything else; but, I thought if I was going to tell it to others for them to believe it I should use the words of Scripture. I searched the books of the experts and used concordances to no avail. I thought there was just something wrong with me. It is very difficult to prove something is not written because you're going on no evidence. I thought I'd surely find it when I went through the book by the head of Dallas Theological Seminary at the time, Valvrood, called The Rapture, looking for Bible references that said that one thing. For a short time I even thought it wasn't written, just something revealed to those born of the Spirit. I even went through the book by the head of Dallas Theological Seminary at the time, Valvrood, called The Rapture, looking for Bible references that said that one thing.

I heard that a rather popular writer on Bible prophecy was going to be in some special meetings nearby. White-haired Bloomfield was in his 80's or 90's and had a whole stack of his books published. After his message he was coming up the aisle surrounded by several men in suits and I met him about halfway. I said, "Can I ask you a question?" He agreed; so, I asked where in the Bible did it say the Rapture was before the 7 Years Great Tribulation. He said, "We need to compare spiritual things with spiritual things, Scripture with Scripture..." and I, rather impatiently asked him again, "Where's there a verse that actually says it?" He answered, "You don't understand;" motioning with his hand from one side of his Bible diagonally to the other corner of the Bible, "You have to take something from here and compare it with something over there..." And I, impatient now, realizing he was stalling, said, "I just want a verse. Show me a verse!" At that two of the men grabbed me, one on each arm, and dragged me backwards with my heels bumping across the carpet. They threw me against the wall, pinning my arms against the wall while another shook his finger in my face, shouting, "You're to respect your elders." All the while I was grinning because, after about 9 months of searching, I realized they didn't have a verse. My search was over. There wasn't a verse. It was almost 25 years later I discovered there was no occurrence of the phrase, "7 Years Great Tribulation" either.

When you speak of the soon coming rapid deterioration of the world and specially America tell me if you have personally had any dreams or visions you believe to be of God, or some kind of visitation by angels, or some other such experience. Or, are you repeating other's prognosticating based on the view of Scripture handed down to them by others as you indicate by saying , "...the Bible speaks in detail of America's future." I not only have heard some I respect as men of God or as having a prophetic ministry telling some things of that sort, I've had several series of dreams as well as visions and words from the Lord concerning coming calamity on the United States. Nevertheless, I try to get people away from those who've only heard of racial dispensationalism that cook up a batch of Bible verses, comparing them with today's news, and supposedly come up with "prophetic teaching." Most of that is just bunk used to bilk the gullible.

Since God says, "I want you all to be speaking in tongues, yet rather that you may be prophesying..." (1 Co 14:5) and, "You can all be prophesying..." (1 Co 14:31) you can be certain he's included you. In fact, all the "gifts" are yours in potential, because God is making us in His image and likeness. All that Jesus is and does is in you by that gift of the indwelling Spirit of God. It is only a matter of how mature we are, which is to the extent we are available to Him. He said that, "...we should all attain...to a mature man, into the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..." (1 Co 4:13) This purpose reveals how displeasing it is to God to settle for being non-participatory audiences enabling professional sermonizers rather than every member ministering to one another. That is what Apostles and Prophets raise up: a body of people that can meet without human headship, preventing whoever would take over the meetings from doing so, in liberty maintaining the headship of Jesus Christ.
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Old 10-24-2009, 10:34 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
Reputation: 636
The pre-tribulation rapture teaches that Christians will not go through the tribulation. However, it is very clear from scripture that the “Son of man” does not come to gather together his elect until after the tribulation.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

The pre-tribulation rapture teaches that the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on us with no announcement - that he will come as a thief in the night. Paul said that the day should not overtake us as a thief, but we are to watch and be sober! What are we watching for? The signs that Jesus told us to watch for!
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Old 10-24-2009, 11:14 PM
 
10,183 posts, read 10,549,080 times
Reputation: 3018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
When I needed a job when I was younger and had just failed a job interview, God spoke to me in a voice and and reminded me I had done everthing but pray about getting a job. So I prayed, and as soon as I said the A of Amen. The phone next to me rang, and the man on the other end of the line asked me if I could start work for their company the next monday morning.

Once when I was praying and thanking God for my life, He spoke to me again, and right while I was in the middle of my prayer. And He told me, my wife was going to have a child. I found out four hours after that encounter. That my wife was pregnant. Yet, I knew she was pregnant even before she knew.

Another time, I got out of my truck and closed the door and told Jesus I loved him. Less than a minute later, a ten inch balloon came down from high up in the sky and squeezed through a 4 inch opening in a gate and almost hit me in the face. I caught the balloon in my hands, and when I turned it over, printed on the other side of the balloon were the words. "I LOVE YOU".
After reading all this I apologize, Campbell, for having said the things I said.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
Reputation: 420
From the Rapture ready website:

The heart of this error is based on Jesus' statement that "this generation shall not pass, till all things be fulfilled" (Mat 24:34). It seems easy enough to claim Jesus was speaking about a first-century generation; however, logic ends there when one contemplates the fulfillment of all Bible prophecy.

............
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:36 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,676,547 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Actually it states this:
1 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

So one day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is 1 day... that means that TO GOD a human day is still a human day... the verse is saying the same thing as here:
Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

Meaning that to an eternal being time does not exist.. when talking to humans who are bound by time though God never says 1 day and means 1000.. a long time is from our perspective not his... so 1000 years equals 1000 years HUMAN time...

That means that when God says to seal it up because it is well into the future (400 years) it means it is a long time off to us, as God doesn't have time. And 2000 years is not near but further in the future than 400 as is what I said earlier.
Clarification.. the Jews ran they weren't removed, they were slaughtered and chose to remove themselves!

It is common knowledge that it did fulfill the prophecy and you should talk to your pastor because I am positive he will say that the fulfillment is two-fold thus it happened already but will happen again.. this is not true but I am positive that is the explanation that will be given.

Here is an excerpt from wikipedia and is easily verifiable:
The exile to Babylon was a traumatic event in Jewish history, as the destruction of the political independence of the kingdom coincided with the destruction of the monarchy and of the First Temple of Jerusalem. Prior to this, several deportations of Judaean nobility and leading citizens occurred.After the overthrow of Babylonia by the Persian Empire, the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great gave Jews permission to return to their homeland in 538 BCE, and more than 40,000 are said to have returned, as noted in the Biblical accounts of Jehoiakim, Ezra, and Nehemiah.
The Babylonian captivity had a number of serious effects on Judaism and the Jewish culture, including changes to the Hebrew alphabet and changes in the fundamental practices and customs of the Jewish religion. This period saw the last high-point of Biblical prophecy in the person of Ezekiel, followed by the emergence of the central role of the Torah in Jewish life. This process coincided with the emergence of scribes and sages as Jewish leaders (see Ezra and the Pharisees).Babylonian captivity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
THE JEWS RAN?

According to the historian Josephus, when the Roman legions layed siege to Jerusalem, one million, one hundred thousands Jews perished. And no less then 100,000 Jews were taken prisoner.

Yet, what does the prophecy say in Ezekiel 37?

25. "They and their children and their children's children will live there forever,"
26. "I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an (EVERLASTING COVENANT), I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my (SANCTUARY) among them (FOREVER).

How was this prophecy fulfilled? When it is obvious, most of the Jews were either kill off, or taken as prisoner? How was Gods sanctuary put there forever, when it's obvious, the Romans destroyed it?

And when the Jews were allowed to return to Israel after Babylon was conquered, it is common knowledge. That most Jews remained in Babylon? That is a historical fact. Your belief that the prophecy of Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled, has little to do with the historical record. And in fact, is more about your personal opinion.


Jews of the Middle East

Last edited by Campbell34; 10-25-2009 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:36 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,676,547 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Actually it states this:
1 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

So one day is like 1000 years and 1000 years is 1 day... that means that TO GOD a human day is still a human day... the verse is saying the same thing as here:
Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

Meaning that to an eternal being time does not exist.. when talking to humans who are bound by time though God never says 1 day and means 1000.. a long time is from our perspective not his... so 1000 years equals 1000 years HUMAN time...

That means that when God says to seal it up because it is well into the future (400 years) it means it is a long time off to us, as God doesn't have time. And 2000 years is not near but further in the future than 400 as is what I said earlier.
Clarification.. the Jews ran they weren't removed, they were slaughtered and chose to remove themselves!

It is common knowledge that it did fulfill the prophecy and you should talk to your pastor because I am positive he will say that the fulfillment is two-fold thus it happened already but will happen again.. this is not true but I am positive that is the explanation that will be given.

Here is an excerpt from wikipedia and is easily verifiable:
The exile to Babylon was a traumatic event in Jewish history, as the destruction of the political independence of the kingdom coincided with the destruction of the monarchy and of the First Temple of Jerusalem. Prior to this, several deportations of Judaean nobility and leading citizens occurred.After the overthrow of Babylonia by the Persian Empire, the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great gave Jews permission to return to their homeland in 538 BCE, and more than 40,000 are said to have returned, as noted in the Biblical accounts of Jehoiakim, Ezra, and Nehemiah.
The Babylonian captivity had a number of serious effects on Judaism and the Jewish culture, including changes to the Hebrew alphabet and changes in the fundamental practices and customs of the Jewish religion. This period saw the last high-point of Biblical prophecy in the person of Ezekiel, followed by the emergence of the central role of the Torah in Jewish life. This process coincided with the emergence of scribes and sages as Jewish leaders (see Ezra and the Pharisees).Babylonian captivity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
No, what it means. Is one earthly day, 24 hours, = one thousands years. And when you have that understanding, then you will understand what Hosea 6:2 means.

"After two days He will revive us: in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight."
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:50 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,676,547 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
I think there is an unexamined assumption that if we have a relationship with God it automatically means His seal of approval on whatever we believe. To be lifted up in ourselves, that whatever we think we know on a matter is the yea and amen on it, will prevent you from advancing in truth. King James translation calls it, "wise in your own conceits." (Rm 12:16) Concordant Literal Translation says, "Do not come to pass for prudent with yourselves." We are led by hunger. The gift of hunger for the bread of life, to know Him and His Word is one of the best gifts God can give us. And we need to do what Finney said he had tried to do: "Adjust to increasing light as rapidly as possible." The truth is, many are surrounded by a crowd of religious fair-weather friends they don't want to offend. For those that hope in incomes of comfort and positions of importance from religious bureachracies it is doubly hard to go along with progressive discoveries in the Word. Of course, many just don't read Scripture as God gave it to us, book by book, so the contradictions between the traditions of men and the Word of God don't appear so often. They just look up verses to embellish topical sermons. Remember, sincerity is the mask of deceit. If you knew you were deceived you wouldn't be deceived. Honesty and humility is a good start, but it is the truth that dispels error. Consider how many times in connection to "the last days" the promise is to the "wise" rather than the holy or righteous.

We need to understand God relates to us as persons. When I first experienced the Lord it was in the early 70's when the outpouring of the Spirit was often labeled "Jesus' People" for the disenfranchised and "The Charismatic Movement" for those in Institutional Christianity. I regularly went to many different kinds of Christian churches and discovered people with very different, even contradictory ideas from each other, yet the presence of Jesus was manifest from within them. This doesn't mean we dispense with the pursuit of "truth;" but, God has other criteria for intimacy with us. You need to remember knowledge or power is empty without love and God is love. By just staying in your own group and never getting out to visit other believers, at least until you're comfortable and find some fellowship, you continue thinking the way Job described some in his day, "You are the people and wisdom will die with you."

My first break with the way I was raised was when I started reading the Bible, beginning with Matthew, and got no farther than The Sermon on the Mount where Jesus said when you pray, fast, or give in secret your Father in heaven would reward you outwardly. Jesus keeps His word. This was something I could do, not just believe, but I could "work" His word. The other beginning was when I started looking for a verse that said something to prove a pre tribulation rapture. I had never heard, even disparagingly, of anything else; but, I thought if I was going to tell it to others for them to believe it I should use the words of Scripture. I searched the books of the experts and used concordances to no avail. I thought there was just something wrong with me. It is very difficult to prove something is not written because you're going on no evidence. I thought I'd surely find it when I went through the book by the head of Dallas Theological Seminary at the time, Valvrood, called The Rapture, looking for Bible references that said that one thing. For a short time I even thought it wasn't written, just something revealed to those born of the Spirit. I even went through the book by the head of Dallas Theological Seminary at the time, Valvrood, called The Rapture, looking for Bible references that said that one thing.

I heard that a rather popular writer on Bible prophecy was going to be in some special meetings nearby. White-haired Bloomfield was in his 80's or 90's and had a whole stack of his books published. After his message he was coming up the aisle surrounded by several men in suits and I met him about halfway. I said, "Can I ask you a question?" He agreed; so, I asked where in the Bible did it say the Rapture was before the 7 Years Great Tribulation. He said, "We need to compare spiritual things with spiritual things, Scripture with Scripture..." and I, rather impatiently asked him again, "Where's there a verse that actually says it?" He answered, "You don't understand;" motioning with his hand from one side of his Bible diagonally to the other corner of the Bible, "You have to take something from here and compare it with something over there..." And I, impatient now, realizing he was stalling, said, "I just want a verse. Show me a verse!" At that two of the men grabbed me, one on each arm, and dragged me backwards with my heels bumping across the carpet. They threw me against the wall, pinning my arms against the wall while another shook his finger in my face, shouting, "You're to respect your elders." All the while I was grinning because, after about 9 months of searching, I realized they didn't have a verse. My search was over. There wasn't a verse. It was almost 25 years later I discovered there was no occurrence of the phrase, "7 Years Great Tribulation" either.

When you speak of the soon coming rapid deterioration of the world and specially America tell me if you have personally had any dreams or visions you believe to be of God, or some kind of visitation by angels, or some other such experience. Or, are you repeating other's prognosticating based on the view of Scripture handed down to them by others as you indicate by saying , "...the Bible speaks in detail of America's future." I not only have heard some I respect as men of God or as having a prophetic ministry telling some things of that sort, I've had several series of dreams as well as visions and words from the Lord concerning coming calamity on the United States. Nevertheless, I try to get people away from those who've only heard of racial dispensationalism that cook up a batch of Bible verses, comparing them with today's news, and supposedly come up with "prophetic teaching." Most of that is just bunk used to bilk the gullible.

Since God says, "I want you all to be speaking in tongues, yet rather that you may be prophesying..." (1 Co 14:5) and, "You can all be prophesying..." (1 Co 14:31) you can be certain he's included you. In fact, all the "gifts" are yours in potential, because God is making us in His image and likeness. All that Jesus is and does is in you by that gift of the indwelling Spirit of God. It is only a matter of how mature we are, which is to the extent we are available to Him. He said that, "...we should all attain...to a mature man, into the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..." (1 Co 4:13) This purpose reveals how displeasing it is to God to settle for being non-participatory audiences enabling professional sermonizers rather than every member ministering to one another. That is what Apostles and Prophets raise up: a body of people that can meet without human headship, preventing whoever would take over the meetings from doing so, in liberty maintaining the headship of Jesus Christ.
In my 59 years of life here on earth, I have only had one vision. And that happened to me when I was 4 years old, and back then, I did not know anything about the Bible, or who Jesus Christ was. My Mom went to church, but all the messages were in Latin, and she never had anything to say about God when she got home. My dad was more of a drinking gambling kind of guy back then, and God was not a consideration for him at that time. Yet, at the age of 4 years old, I had a vision of the Anti-Christ to come. I did not know who he was at the time, yet I finally understood the vision, when I heard a minister speak about him in a church 13 years later.

I believe the Rapture will occur during the time America comes under nuclear attack. And I base that on what God has revealed to me, and through other unusual circumstances.
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
THE JEWS RAN?
Yes they were dispersed among the nations as a result of the revolt. Also many were killed as you say. I didn't elaborate or clarify as I figured the phrase "the Jews ran" would be sufficient.

Quote:
According to the historian Josephus, when the Roman legions layed siege to Jerusalem, one million, one hundred thousands Jews perished. And no less then 100,000 Jews were taken prisoner.
And the Jews alive today are religion Jews and hardly as "pure-blooded" as those alive in Christ's day.

Quote:
Yet, what does the prophecy say in Ezekiel 37?

25. "They and their children and their children's children will live there forever,"
26. "I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an (EVERLASTING COVENANT), I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my (SANCTUARY) among them (FOREVER).
Do you not agree that the temple of God exists in us individually? Do you not see that Jesus taught that in him we are all considered children of Abraham by the circumcision of our hearts? It is plain that it is the kingdom of God that "land" that will be inhabited forever.. rather than the land of Judea.

Take a look at Ezekiel 44:7-9, Ezekiel 45:10-16
“burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel… sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings” (Ezekiel 45:17). "to make atonement for the house of Israel."

So you are saying that not only will the Jews (who are not really Jews by blood) will return to the land of Israel and that they will start to sacrifice again for atonement even though the NT makes it clear that the need for those sacrifices were abolished by Jesus' one time sacrifice? And that these sacrifices physically ended with the destruction of the physical temple in 70 AD?

Quote:
How was this prophecy fulfilled? When it is obvious, most of the Jews were either kill off, or taken as prisoner? How was Gods sanctuary put there forever, when it's obvious, the Romans destroyed it?
Do you not understand what the NT teaches?
Hebrews 8: 1-6
1The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.
3Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

The sanctuary is eternal as it is found in heaven not on earth...

Quote:
And when the Jews were allowed to return to Israel after Babylon was conquered, it is common knowledge. That most Jews remained in Babylon? That is a historical fact. Your belief that the prophecy of Ezekiel 37 was fulfilled, has little to do with the historical record. And in fact, is more about your personal opinion.
Gal. 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

It is the promise to Abraham of which Ezekiel speaks and it is those who are in Christ that inherit those promises whether Jews or Gentiles. For a true Jew is defined as:

Romans 28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

So your whole premise for fulfillment or non-fulfillment of Ezekiel is flawed.

There are no semetic bloodline Jews anymore and they can't rightly be called hebrews or Israelites. See: Are the Jews really Israelites

So whoever calls themselves a Jew today returning to Palestine would not be a fulfillment of the prophecy anyway.
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
No, what it means. Is one earthly day, 24 hours, = one thousands years. And when you have that understanding, then you will understand what Hosea 6:2 means.

"After two days He will revive us: in the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight."
Luke 18:31-34 Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”
The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

There are many commentaries that do not even begin to use Hosea 6:2 the way that you do... see: Hosea 6:2 Bible Commentary

Now we know that Hosea speaks of us being raised with Jesus and has nothing to do with a day equaling 1000 years. God did not use his eternal concept of time (no time) when dealing with time constrained humans. It would be silly for God to predict something would happen in three days then expect us to understand he means 3000 days.. that is absurd.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:31 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,676,547 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes they were dispersed among the nations as a result of the revolt. Also many were killed as you say. I didn't elaborate or clarify as I figured the phrase "the Jews ran" would be sufficient.


And the Jews alive today are religion Jews and hardly as "pure-blooded" as those alive in Christ's day.



Do you not agree that the temple of God exists in us individually? Do you not see that Jesus taught that in him we are all considered children of Abraham by the circumcision of our hearts? It is plain that it is the kingdom of God that "land" that will be inhabited forever.. rather than the land of Judea.

Take a look at Ezekiel 44:7-9, Ezekiel 45:10-16
“burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel… sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings” (Ezekiel 45:17). "to make atonement for the house of Israel."

So you are saying that not only will the Jews (who are not really Jews by blood) will return to the land of Israel and that they will start to sacrifice again for atonement even though the NT makes it clear that the need for those sacrifices were abolished by Jesus' one time sacrifice? And that these sacrifices physically ended with the destruction of the physical temple in 70 AD?


Do you not understand what the NT teaches?
Hebrews 8: 1-6
1The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.
3Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already men who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

The sanctuary is eternal as it is found in heaven not on earth...



Gal. 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

It is the promise to Abraham of which Ezekiel speaks and it is those who are in Christ that inherit those promises whether Jews or Gentiles. For a true Jew is defined as:

Romans 28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

So your whole premise for fulfillment or non-fulfillment of Ezekiel is flawed.



There are no semetic bloodline Jews anymore and they can't rightly be called hebrews or Israelites. See: Are the Jews really Israelites

So whoever calls themselves a Jew today returning to Palestine would not be a fulfillment of the prophecy anyway.
Your belief that there are no semetic bloodline Jews anymore, is a false belief. New DNA testing is revealing to us the details of Jewish Identity.

And your belief in replacement theology is no substitute for Biblical truth.
God told us, that the Children of Israel would return to their land in the latter days. They would take (ISRAEL) and (JERUSALEM).
I don't see you or I over there. Yet I see a lot of Jewish people there today. And I don't care what kind of denial you slip into. God also told us, these people polluted His name where ever they went. Yet when He defends them when their enemy comes against them, many nations will then know why they went into captivity. The entire prophecy of Ezekiel 37, 38, and 39, is about the Jewish race. Not the gentile races. God tells us, He is doing this to anger the nations, and he will draw many nations to attack Israel and Jerusalem in the latter days. The Jews are back in Israel, because God is getting ready to reveal to the world and the Jewish people, who He is.
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