Never heard this: Catholics aren't Christians (Gomorrah, Sodom, myth, minority)

[Oakback]

Originally Posted by mams1559

Please don't paint all evangelical or born-again Christians with the same broad stroke that you accuse them of doing to Catholics.

I'm a born-again, Bible-believing, Jesus following (to my best ability) Christian. IMO and the opinion of many fellow Christians I know from where I am, Catholics are Christians. Yes, there may be differences in theology (the Mary issue; the communion issue) but these are peripheral. They are side-line to the very core that makes a Christian a Christian ... the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.

I never knew other Christians did not recognize Catholics as fellow Christians until I came on this forum. My wife is a former Catholic. She (it was her choice) converted to my faith (Protestant - Baptist). But she told me something interesting just a few weeks ago.

She flat out said that no one in her Catholic dhurch ever told her of the need for her to personally accept Christ as her Lord and Savior to enter heaven. She thought because she was born and raised Catholic and went to church that's all that was needed to enter heaven. Her church never corrected her interpretation. It wasn't until she attended my church that she heard the Gospel. Again, these are her words. And she/we're not bitter about it. But, she has made sure the rest of her family, who remain Catholic, knows now what she knows.

So again, I don't paint all Catholics the same way, because there is variation within the Church ... so don't paint all born-agains the same way either. Those who have accepted Christ and follow Him are all all brothers and sisters in Christ.

Thanks for this.
As an adult convert to the catholic Church, I can empathize with your wife.
I've met too many cradle catholics that have spent years just going through the motions.
There are also many Catholics whom I believe are good Christians, but use an entirely different jargon than evangelicals.

[happ]

Wonderful responses to a thread that was starting to concern me for a while. We learn from each other but mostly we share our faith in Jesus, our Lord.

Catholics don't generally use the terminology of being "born again" and a "personal acceptance" with Christ. Baptism as an infant is our birth into Christ's Church. Our original sin was forgiven as we were ushered into God's family. Holy communion where we enter into the very presence of Jesus is where Jesus “accepts” us in spite of our sinful natures.

I would invite all Christians to visit a local Catholic parish during the day. The church is always open for prayer and services. You can look at the art & see how connected Catholics are with the heavenly Church where angels and saints worship God endlessly. Our prayers to God echo throughout heaven.

When we celebrate mass we actually enter the Upper Room with Jesus and his apostles as Christ comes to us. "We are not worthy" that God comes to us with his body and blood and forgive us our sins.

The comment about Mary not necessarily being sinless is debated by some Catholics. The teaching has been that the very presence of Jesus in Mary's womb made her the holy mother of God. I don't think it is a major issue of faith to believe that the virgin Mary is sinless and remained a virgin. We do believe that she was bodily assumed into heaven upon her death but even that doctrine isn't considered a "must" belief.

[Towhee]

Question...How could Mary be the mother of God when God is eternal? Mary was the mother of the human side of the Son of God, Jesus. Yes, Jesus is part of the godhead, but he is not God the Father.

Question, if Catholism is the church Christ started, why did their doctrine take so long after His death to come into being? And why is it so differant than the inspired scriptures found in the Bible?
Questions: where did prayer beads come from? Where did Cardinals, and Popes come from? Where did the acceptance of so many pagan observances come from? Where did all their litergy come from? Where did the calling of their priests "Father" come from? Where did the abstaining from meat and forbiding to marry come from?
None of the above are found in the Bible.

[Oakback]

Originally Posted by Marianinark

Question...How could Mary be the mother of God when God is eternal? Mary was the mother of the human side of the Son of God, Jesus. Yes, Jesus is part of the godhead, but he is not God the Father.

Question, if Catholism is the church Christ started, why did their doctrine take so long after His death to come into being? And why is it so differant than the inspired scriptures found in the Bible?
Questions: where did prayer beads come from? Where did Cardinals, and Popes come from? Where did the acceptance of so many pagan observances come from? Where did all their litergy come from? Where did the calling of their priests "Father" come from? Where did the abstaining from meat and forbiding to marry come from?
None of the above are found in the Bible.

This should keep you busy for a while.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Home

[happ]

I believe there is a misunderstanding of the early Church’s formation. The faith in Jesus Christ, as we know, began in Israel and spread to the entire Mediterranean area over the early centuries of the Church. How the Church governs developed over time with the standard bishop/priest/deacon [more or less still the norm for most Christians [ie Anglicans/Lutherans/Orthodox] today. People devote themselves to Christ by giving themselves over to orders of monks/nuns [where they pray out to God many times during the day & provide retreats for lay people and clergy seeking to be near Christ.

I'm not sure where the difficulty of understanding the Catholic faith [as professed by Presbyterians, Methodists, Reformed, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Orthodox/Roman Catholics/etc in the Apostles/Nicene/Athanasius creeds each Sunday at Mass/Lord's Supper.

American Protestants, particularly groups that started here, have veered away from the historic Christian expression. Auditoriums replaced traditional church buildings [with pews/kneelers, altar, crucifix, candles, sainted glass windows, art]. The format of Baptist worship appears somewhat similar with prayer, Bible readings, hymns, sermon, praise; this is the norm for all Christians. But those who follow the Catholic traditions emphasize the ancient mass of confession, kyrie,3 readings [1 from Old Testament, 2 New Testaments including one of the 4 Gospels], sermon, prayers/creed, preparation for Holy Communion, Sanctus, Angus Dei, consecration of the bread/wine into the very Body & Blood of Jesus, elevation, holy communion, silence, prayers, benediction. This is the Christian worship practiced in most of the Church.

We use a Church calendar of the liturgical seasons/saints days/holy days. Images of Christ, his holy Mother, apostles and saints are common reminders of our devotion to Christ. The priest kisses the altar & the Bible during Mass since the altar represents Christ & the Bible is His holy word of salvation.

In answer to where in the Bible are these practices; the Church began organizing itself as the apostles and saints were guided by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Once the Canon, that is the current recognized books of the Bible, was finalized there were no more books added to the Bible. The Bible is our pathway to Christ but doesn't say exactly how we are to worship our Lord.

As I have observed, there are many wonderful expressions of our faith among all Christians. For some, the type of worship commonly practiced in Baptist churches, is odd and quite unlike the Mass but spirit-filled none the less. Catholics respond outwardly by bowing to the altar [that represents Christ], and to the Bible, by kneeling for prayer, crossing ourselves with the sign of the crucified Lord. We sing hymns, chant the psalms, say our prayers, confess our sins, receive Holy Communion [Body & Blood of Christ], are blessed by the priest [who represents Christ], genuflex to Christ, ask each other and the saints to pray for us.

This is the faith in Christ that has been the norm up to the 16th/17th centuries. Because of concerns that some doctrines were in conflict with long-held Christians teachings, the Church has divided itself up but the holy Spirit enlightens the Church and reform continues. Many Christians now have full-communion fellowship [meaning their clergy can be called to other denominations and mutual services are held]. For example, the Episcopalians & Lutherans have joint ordination of clergy so that the ancient custom of Apostolic succession continues [a practice American Lutherans didn’t use], and their clergy can serve in both church bodies. Holy communion is offered to all Christians who have been baptized in most Anglican and Lutheran churches. I believe most Protestants invite everyone to holy communion though it is not offered each Sunday.

Hope this helps.

[cg81]

Originally Posted by happ

Catholics don't generally use the terminology of being "born again" and a "personal acceptance" with Christ. Baptism as an infant is our birth into Christ's Church. Our original sin was forgiven as we were ushered into God's family.

What is your view on repentance?

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Holy communion where we enter into the very presence of Jesus is where Jesus “accepts” us in spite of our sinful natures.

How would you explain these verses, in the light of the above statement?

1 Cor. 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

[corking28]

Originally Posted by foma

So I've never heard this before until I started reading posts in this forum: that many Christians don't consider Catholics Christians. Yes, I've heard of other religions but my question is the Catholic religion. Why aren't Catholics Christian in some of you Christians' point of view?

My husband is Catholic so I asked him and he's never heard of this either. Can somebody respond to this?

Catholics are not Christians. Catholics FOLLOW under the guidance of the POPE who has made a book called the Catechism. They follow the word and traditions of this book as the foundation to their religion.
Christians on the other hand base their faith on the bible...mainly the New Testament. Many Catholics convert as Christians by simply reading this book. Catholitism goes against scripture in many many ways. The bible prohibits making statues and bowing in front of them. The bible prohibits making anyone else an intercessor to God other than Jesus Christ. The bible prohibits praying to dead saints, The bible prohibits praying "vain repetitions" of the rosary. If you read the bible you will see MARY did NOT remain a virgin. She had union with Jospeh after Jesus was born and had other children.
When I converted to Christianity it was because I began reading the bible.
Soon after converting I had a vision of Jesus. After the vision I cried and asked why I wasn't close to him as a Catholic and he replied "They know not my word. They follow doctrine of man."
I can give you thinks on thousands of nuns and priests who have converted to Christianity. When asked why they all had the same answer."I read the New Testament."
If your husband would like to talk to me more about this I am here to help in any way possible. Please feel free to email me at corking@live.com
Love,
Corinne

[djf863000]

To be a christian, u have to be a born again believer. No way around it.

[foma]

why is post 201 and 247 the same? if you can't substantiate your point of view, repeating it doesn't help

i think people have made their point and i motion this thread to be closed. if any mods are reading, be my guest. i believe this topic has reached that point.

[djf863000]

but it is good people ask that question and there is a lot of scripture references. Great.