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Old 10-27-2009, 06:03 PM
 
191 posts, read 209,736 times
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1 Cor 11 :29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and brings judgement on himself..that is why many of u are weak and sick and a number of u have fallen asleep


Matt. 9:24
He said to them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they derided him.

Matt. 27:52
And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints who slept, arose,

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith to them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Acts 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid to his fathers, and saw corruption:

1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain to this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.



Moreover, there are scriptures that apparently teach that the dead do not have a conscious existence:

Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do itwith thy might; for there isno work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Isaiah 38:19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I dothis day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

After reading these verses, they do appear to overwhelmingly lean toward the doctrine of soul sleep. But there seems to be a clear explanation for why the bible talks about death as sleeping. One way of looking at death is simply from a metaphorical point of view. Scripture represents death metaphorically as "sleep" simply to indicate that death is only TEMPORARY for christians, just as sleep is temporary. This can be clearly seen when Jesus tells his disciples, for example, about the death of Lazarus. He says:These things said he: and after that he saith to them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (John 11:11)

We should noticed that Jesues does not say, The soul of Lazarus is sleeping, " nor the fact, does any verse say that the soul of a person is sleeping or unconscious ( a statement that would be necessary to prove the doctrine of soul sleep). Instead, Jesus simply says that Lazarus has fallen asleep. Then John explains in the next verses: Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spoke of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.John 11:12-13

What about the passages that seem to overwhelmingly demonstrate that souls of believers go immediately into God's presence and enjoy fellowship with him there:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say,and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

These verses all indicate that there is conscious existence and fellowship with God immediately after death for the believer. Jesus did not say, "Today you will no longer have consciousness of anything that is going on," but, "today you will be with me in Paradise" ( Luke 23:43). Certainly the conception of paradise understood at that time was not one of unconscious existence but one of great blessing and joy in the presense of God.

Paul did not say, "My desire is to depart and be unconscious for a long period of time," but rather, "My desire is to depart and be with Christ (Phil. 1:23). Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy spirit, certainly knew that Christ was not an unconscious, sleeping Savior,but one who was actively living and reigning in heaven. To be with Christ was to enjoy the blessing of fellowship in his presence, and that is why to depart and be with Him was and still is far better. Also, that is why Paul can clearly say, "We would rather be away fromt he body and at home with the Lord."

How about the fact that Hebrews 12:1 says, "We are surrounded by so great a clould of witnesses," just after an entire chapter is spent on the discussion of the faith of Old Testament saints who had died (Heb. 11), and the fact that the Hebrew's writer encourages us to run the race of life with perseverance because we are surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses. Here the writer of Hebrews is both suggesting that those who have died and gone before have some awareness of what is going on in the earth.

How about Revelation 6:9-11 and 7:9-10? These Scriptures also clearly show that souls or spirits of those who have died and who have gone to heaven are praying and worshiping, for they cry out with a loud voice:

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and to the Lamb.

All of these verses deny the doctrine of soul sleep, for they make it clear that the souls of believers experience conscious fellowship with God in heaven immediately upon death. Since Scripture doesn't contradict itself and when Scriputure represents death as "sleep", it is simply a metaphorical expression used to indicate that the death of a christian is only temporaray, just as sleep is temporary.[/quote]
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,391,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The sacrifices of the Old Testament looked forward to the coming of Christ. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was accepted by God the Father. What a blasphemous thing to say that it might not of been. And I see that you did indeed ignore Titus 2:12. You just can't accept anything that speaks of dispensations can you? The more you post, the more heretical you show your beliefs to be.
I think Titus 2:11-13 is what you mean..

and what is the hope they wait for in Christ's return?

Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:05 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 15,658,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You have yet to explain to me why you think living people can be resurrection... Isn't that elementary?

resurrect 1. To bring back to life; raise from the dead.
2. To bring back into practice, notice, or use.

Perhaps you use the wrong word?
Those who are dead at the time of the rapture have their bodies resurrected. Those people who are still alive at the time of the rapture are simply transformed. Since they haven't died, their bodies aren't resurrected, they are simply changed from mortal to immortal.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:32 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 15,658,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I think Titus 2:11-13 is what you mean..

and what is the hope they wait for in Christ's return?

Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
No, I am referring Titus 2:12, specifically concerning the phrase ''in the present age.'' Dispensations!
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,391,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Those who are dead at the time of the rapture have their bodies resurrected. Those people who are still alive at the time of the rapture are simply transformed. Since they haven't died, their bodies aren't resurrected, they are simply changed from mortal to immortal.
So then revelation is silent and leaves the changed part out of those brought to heaven by the rapture?
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,391,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, I am referring Titus 2:12, specifically concerning the phrase ''in the present age.'' Dispensations!
Ok so what was said is true.. that the consummation of salvation cannot happen until the second coming... right?

According to those passages I quoted and the hope of the disciples.. who's hope in salvation was confirmed by the second coming?
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:37 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,951 times
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Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, today, you shall be with me in paradise.

We all know that years later, after the scripture was written by Luke, men came in and added the commas, etc. Read it with the comma in a different place, or no comma at all . . .

Does this make sense . . . the day that Jesus died . . .he did not go to paradise. His soul did not go to paradise. When he met Mary Magdalene in the Garden, he told her he had not yet ascended . . . . Jesus, was in the grave . . . dead. The day he was crucified his soul did not leave his body . . . I believe he would have talked about that "experience" and it would have been noted . . . . in face, his words say, he had not gone to be with his father . . .
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:54 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,585 times
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
LOL.

I have no idea what all the churches in the phone book teach. But from this thread alone, you can see there are plenty of people who believe that soul sleep is biblical.
Im not surprised you cant name any church that teaches as you believe.

If I had some of the crazy teachings that I see around here sometimes, i would be unable to name a church that taught as I do to....LOL
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:57 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I don't understand how one can have a resurrected body without dying first..Why then didn't Jesus just resurrect rather than die first?
At the return of our Lord, we who are alive at that moment will find that our bodies will be changed.
In the blink of an eye our mortal bodies will become everlasting.

The other point you ask about...Jesus had to die for my sins, the sin required my blood to account for.
Jesus died in my place.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:58 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,488,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Those who are dead at the time of the rapture have their bodies resurrected. Those people who are still alive at the time of the rapture are simply transformed. Since they haven't died, their bodies aren't resurrected, they are simply changed from mortal to immortal.
This is the correct answer....
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