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Old 10-27-2009, 10:26 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,777,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Im not surprised you cant name any church that teaches as you believe.
Thank God. I would be worried if I was believing and following along with the masses. Many are called. But few are chosen. That`s few as in not a lot. If you think you are right because you follow along with the many popular modern church teachings, then I would seriously sit down and have a long heart to heart with God.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:28 PM
 
20,326 posts, read 15,692,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So then revelation is silent and leaves the changed part out of those brought to heaven by the rapture?
The rapture occurs before the events of Revelation. The passage you need to look at is 1 Thess 4:15-17.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:34 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 3,491,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Thank God. I would be worried if I was believing and following along with the masses..
a dad is watching a marching band walk by.
Pride swells his chest and he taps the guy standing next to him.
"Just look at that, my son is the only one in step"
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:38 PM
 
20,326 posts, read 15,692,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Ok so what was said is true.. that the consummation of salvation cannot happen until the second coming... right?

According to those passages I quoted and the hope of the disciples.. who's hope in salvation was confirmed by the second coming?
I don't even know what you are talking about now. I brought up Titus 2:12 in a post with that other poster because it concerned dispensations.

If you're talking about individual salvation, that occurs at the moment anyone believes in Christ.

You're going to have to refresh my memory.
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Old 10-27-2009, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,402,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I don't even know what you are talking about now. I brought up Titus 2:12 in a post with that other poster because it concerned dispensations.

If you're talking about individual salvation, that occurs at the moment anyone believes in Christ.

You're going to have to refresh my memory.
This post:


and what is the hope they wait for in Christ's return?

Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Florida
581 posts, read 633,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
First of all Luke 23:43 is clearly badly punctuated because we know from Christ's own mouth that he had not yet ascended even after the resurrection when he spoke to Mary(Jhn 20:17). All of these verses deny the doctrine of soul sleep ...

you said...
I really don't see how you can say that. Everyone of those passages which you quoted as "evidence" of the conscious soul after death are ambiguous at best and can be easily (and rightly so in my opinion) explained to mean that when we die our spirit(not our conscious mind or soul) or breath of life Goes back to god who gave it. And that because when we die and lose consciousness at the point of death that at the resurrection it will be as if no time has passed at all, so it would seems as if we were immediately in the presence of the lord at the resurrection. But the verses which talk about the fact that the soul ceases from conscious thought etc. are not in the slightest ambiguous but are extremely specific.

If the soul lives on after death then what is the purpose of the resurrection to begin with?

What about this ... ?

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Today is the day the Lord has made, rejoice and be glad in it!
God shows no favoritism.
Jesus will never leave me nor forsake me.
I have passed from death to life everlasting.
John 8:52
At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death.
The purpose of the resurrection was to prove death is defeated.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:42 AM
 
20,326 posts, read 15,692,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
This post:


and what is the hope they wait for in Christ's return?

Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
The hope is the rapture of the church.
This is talking about the resurrection of the body of the church-age believer. The return of Christ that is being referred to, is not the second advent that is mentioned in Zechariah 14:4 where He returns all the way to the earth, but is referring to His coming down to the clouds as mentioned in 1 Thess.4:16-17. These are two separate events. The descent of Christ to the clouds for the purpose of 'catching up the believers,' is not to be construed as the second advent. The Bible makes a clear distinction between the two events.

Christ returns to the clouds for the church. His bride.

Some seven years later, He returns to the earth to rescue Israel, and to establish His Millennial Kingdom.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,402,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The hope is the rapture of the church.
This is talking about the resurrection of the body of the church-age believer. The return of Christ that is being referred to, is not the second advent that is mentioned in Zechariah 14:4 where He returns all the way to the earth, but is referring to His coming down to the clouds as mentioned in 1 Thess.4:16-17. These are two separate events. The descent of Christ to the clouds for the purpose of 'catching up the believers,' is not to be construed as the second advent. The Bible makes a clear distinction between the two events.

Christ returns to the clouds for the church. His bride.

Some seven years later, He returns to the earth to rescue Israel, and to establish His Millennial Kingdom.
AHA! I knew you would say that! so Jesus comes back twice not three times? Where is that explained? or are you just inferring it by piecing together verses from here and there to rationalize your dispensationalist future view of the multiple returns of Christ?
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Old 10-28-2009, 02:01 AM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,777,905 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
a dad is watching a marching band walk by.
Pride swells his chest and he taps the guy standing next to him.
"Just look at that, my son is the only one in step"
That same dad is watching the marching band follow the band leader heading for a cliff. His son sees the band heading for the cliff and tries to warn the other members. But they don`t listen. The band leader knows what he is doing they say. But the parade is this way he says. Just open your eyes and see. No, they say. If it was, everybody else in the band would be going that way.Our band leader would never lead us astray. He is smart. So his son turns to march toward the parade while the band leader leads the rest of the band memebers over the cliff.

Sort of reminds me of Noah. How many were saved from the flood again?
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Old 10-28-2009, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,125,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The sacrifices of the Old Testament looked forward to the coming of Christ. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was accepted by God the Father. What a blasphemous thing to say that it might not of been. And I see that you did indeed ignore Titus 2:12. You just can't accept anything that speaks of dispensations can you? The more you post, the more heretical you show your beliefs to be.
Why in the world would I ever believe your dispensensational nonsense...absolutely none of it is scriptural unless you twist and mangle scripture beyond recognition and insert fantasy scenarios of how it will all work out. The only dispensations there are, are the one carnal men have made. There was no Plan B, interruption or mistake made by Jesus or the Apostles regarding His return. I prefer to listen to God and believe the words I have in front of me. When Jesus said He would come in their generation (the 1st century) I believe Him and history bears out that His statments are trustworthy and absolutely true...Gods word means more to me than the carnal interpretations of any human being.
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