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Old 10-19-2009, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When Christ returns, He will establish the kingdom, and will rule with a rod of iron (Rev. 2:27) from David's throne in Jerusalem. Preterists deny this, and so call God a liar.

The Kingdom of God has both a spiritual aspect, and a physical political aspect. The physical political aspect is the Millennial Kingdom. Rev. 20, Psa. 72; Isa. 11; Zech 14, are among those passages that refer to the Millennium.

No right minded person can think that any of this has happened yet.

The Bible makes it clear to anyone except those who will not accept the truth, that a spiritual resurrection is heresy.

Now, those who wish to ignore the truth will continue to do so. But the word of God presents the truth, and some will accept it without distorting it. Those who choose to continue in error will simply be in for a rude awakening either at the point of death, or at the rapture of the Church. Whichever comes first.
It is obvious that you choose not to see the scripture presented, it is no wonder you perceive things of God the way you do.

What is more important than holding on to your rhetoric because it is that same rhetoric that is holding you back from hearing the truth.
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:28 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Luke:17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

What don't you understand about Jesus clear and precise literal words?
If a person, whether they be a preterist, or a universalist, or some other apostate, or heretical type, refuses to look at all Scripture, and instead picks and chooses what they want in order to support their erronious belief system; if such a person twists and distorts those Scriptures to their own end, they have no interest in the truth and will continue to lock themselves ever more tightly into their false beliefs.

If you do not approach the Word of God from a dispensational standpoint, you have no chance of understanding God's revealed word.

The Bible shows the future coming literal, physical, political Kingdom of God in which Christ will be physically present on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, and ruling the earth with a rod of iron. How is it then, that there are those who will not see it, except that they have no desire to see it? How is it that a person who holds to a preteristic belief can believe such nonsense, and not see how illogical it is?

How can anyone think that, for instance, Zech. 14 has been fulfilled. Or how is it that they can allegorize it. But yet they do.

I have come to realize that you can not reason with people who hold to such twisted beliefs, and so it is a waste of time to try. It is only because there may be someone who is on the fence and is not sure about what to believe, and who may be helped by being presented with the truth, that there is any point in replying to those who teach their false doctrines. And who knows. Maybe here and there, someone will be helped.
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Old 10-19-2009, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If a person, whether they be a preterist, or a universalist, or some other apostate, or heretical type, refuses to look at all Scripture, and instead picks and chooses what they want in order to support their erronious belief system; if such a person twists and distorts those Scriptures to their own end, they have no interest in the truth and will continue to lock themselves ever more tightly into their false beliefs.

If you do not approach the Word of God from a dispensational standpoint, you have no chance of understanding God's revealed word.

The Bible shows the future coming literal, physical, political Kingdom of God in which Christ will be physically present on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, and ruling the earth with a rod of iron. How is it then, that there are those who will not see it, except that they have no desire to see it? How is it that a person who holds to a preteristic belief can believe such nonsense, and not see how illogical it is?

How can anyone think that, for instance, Zech. 14 has been fulfilled. Or how is it that they can allegorize it. But yet they do.

I have come to realize that you can not reason with people who hold to such twisted beliefs, and so it is a waste of time to try. It is only because there may be someone who is on the fence and is not sure about what to believe, and who may be helped by being presented with the truth, that there is any point in replying to those who teach their false doctrines. And who knows. Maybe here and there, someone will be helped.
The verse Christy presenty was pretty blatant. I don't see how you can ignore that.

Zech. 14.. or do you mean Zech. 12-14?

Obviously that covers a lot of ground. Isn't it clear in the gospels and epistles that the future Israel is not those who are circumcised physically but who are circumcised in the heart or spiritually?

Romans 2:29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Matthew 12:41 "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

Romans 3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

Eph. 2:11-13 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)--remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Romans 9:4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

And there are many more that say that true Israel are not the circumcised or direct descendants of Jacob but the believers in Christ who have circumcision of the heart....

But alas.. you won't address any of these passages.. so I guess it is a waste of my time.
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 505,875 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
2 Tim. 2:18 is not about the timing. It is about the fact that a spiritual resurrection is completely contrary to the Christian faith and that those who teach it 'overthrow the faith of some.'

The evidence of a physical resurrection of both Christ and of believers is overwheming.

Christian Information Exchange 714-531-3834 Fountain Valley, CA Sysop Mike Wallace THE IMP

The sad thing is that there are those who just will not accept the reality of a future physical resurrection and don't know how far off the mark they are.
Daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall wake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" is connected to A TIMING VERSE in Dan.12:6-7 "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when HE SHALL AHVE ACCOMPLISHED TO SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE FINISHED."

The SCATTERING OF ISRAEL IS NOT FUTURE, BUT PAST!
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Old 10-21-2009, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,128,346 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If a person, whether they be a preterist, or a universalist, or some other apostate, or heretical type, refuses to look at all Scripture, and instead picks and chooses what they want in order to support their erronious belief system; if such a person twists and distorts those Scriptures to their own end, they have no interest in the truth and will continue to lock themselves ever more tightly into their false beliefs.

If you do not approach the Word of God from a dispensational standpoint, you have no chance of understanding God's revealed word.

The Bible shows the future coming literal, physical, political Kingdom of God in which Christ will be physically present on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, and ruling the earth with a rod of iron. How is it then, that there are those who will not see it, except that they have no desire to see it? How is it that a person who holds to a preteristic belief can believe such nonsense, and not see how illogical it is?

How can anyone think that, for instance, Zech. 14 has been fulfilled. Or how is it that they can allegorize it. But yet they do.

I have come to realize that you can not reason with people who hold to such twisted beliefs, and so it is a waste of time to try. It is only because there may be someone who is on the fence and is not sure about what to believe, and who may be helped by being presented with the truth, that there is any point in replying to those who teach their false doctrines. And who knows. Maybe here and there, someone will be helped.
You never answered the question:

Luke:17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

What don't you understand about Jesus clear and precise literal words?



As long as you cling for life to your "dispensensationalism" you will never even see a glimmer of the truth....very, very, very sad.
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:14 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
You never answered the question:

Luke:17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

What don't you understand about Jesus clear and precise literal words?



As long as you cling for life to your "dispensensationalism" you will never even see a glimmer of the truth....very, very, very sad.
Cling for life? Anyone who wishes to, may at any time go into my thread on dispensations and view the passages that so very clearly show how dispensations are the very framework on which God's plan is constructed.

Jesus Christ did not say that the Kingdom of God is within you. What He said in Luke 17:20 is, ''The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21) nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.''

(17:21) Greek 'entos,' meaning 'in the midst.' It could not be said of a self-righteous, Christ rejecting Pharisee that the Kingdom of God, as to its spiritual content, was ''within him,'' as in the KJV, Our Lord's whole answer, designedly enigmatic to the Pharisees (cp. Mt.13:10-13), has a dispensational meaning. The kingdom in its outward form, as covenated to David (2 Sam7:16, note) and described by the prophets (Zech.12:8, note) had been rejected by the Jews, so that, during this present age, it would not ''come with observation'' (lit. ''outward show'') but in the hearts of men (see Lk.19:11-12; Acts 1:6-8, note; Rom.14:17). Meantime, the kingdom was actually ''in the midst'' of the Pharisees in the persons of the King and His disciples. Ultimately the Kingdom of heaven will come with outward show, See verse. 24.

(New Scofield Reference Edition Bible, footnote for Luke 17:21; page 1107.)

Now, you won't like the answer given above, because of your preteristic views. But if you at all have any desire for the truth, then you will take this to heart, and study what has been given above.
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:43 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeapostle View Post
Daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall wake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" is connected to A TIMING VERSE in Dan.12:6-7 "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when HE SHALL AHVE ACCOMPLISHED TO SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE FINISHED."

The SCATTERING OF ISRAEL IS NOT FUTURE, BUT PAST!
Israel remains scattered today and will remain scattered until the second advent of Christ. The fact that there are some Jews in the land now, is not the fulfillment of God's promise to restore them to the land.

The passages you have listed are fulfilled in the future.

Look at this link: Daniel 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power

Scroll down the page and look at the parallel commentaries.
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,128,346 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Cling for life? Anyone who wishes to, may at any time go into my thread on dispensations and view the passages that so very clearly show how dispensations are the very framework on which God's plan is constructed.

Jesus Christ did not say that the Kingdom of God is within you. What He said in Luke 17:20 is, ''The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21) nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.''

(17:21) Greek 'entos,' meaning 'in the midst.' It could not be said of a self-righteous, Christ rejecting Pharisee that the Kingdom of God, as to its spiritual content, was ''within him,'' as in the KJV, Our Lord's whole answer, designedly enigmatic to the Pharisees (cp. Mt.13:10-13), has a dispensational meaning. The kingdom in its outward form, as covenated to David (2 Sam7:16, note) and described by the prophets (Zech.12:8, note) had been rejected by the Jews, so that, during this present age, it would not ''come with observation'' (lit. ''outward show'') but in the hearts of men (see Lk.19:11-12; Acts 1:6-8, note; Rom.14:17). Meantime, the kingdom was actually ''in the midst'' of the Pharisees in the persons of the King and His disciples. Ultimately the Kingdom of heaven will come with outward show, See verse. 24.

(New Scofield Reference Edition Bible, footnote for Luke 17:21; page 1107.)

Now, you won't like the answer given above, because of your preteristic views. But if you at all have any desire for the truth, then you will take this to heart, and study what has been given above.
Dispensationlism is not the truth....it is your truth...there is a huge difference.

It seems you do not have an original thought in your head....like I told you before, you rely way too much upon "man"...try listening and learning from God.


Your quote: "Jesus Christ did not say that the Kingdom of God is within you."

As you can see below....the various bibles (that you claim are reliable and free from translation errors) say He did.

AMP Nor will people say, Look! Here [it is]! or, See, [it is] there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you [in your hearts] and among you [surrounding you].

KJV Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

NCV People will not say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' because God's kingdom is within you."

YLT nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'

ASV neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

NIV nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

NASB nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."


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Old 10-21-2009, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,297,289 times
Reputation: 420
The expectation of the Resurrection was for that generation. Dancing around it is futile.
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,128,346 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The expectation of the Resurrection was for that generation. Dancing around it is futile.
There are none so blind as those who will not see....it is very sad
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