U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-20-2009, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Show scripture or is this your fallen, finite personal view? since you are saying, an atheist who remains an atheist has a better understanding than true Christians who have received the Holy Spirit and surrendered to Christ then you are either calling the Holy Spirit a liar or you are calling certain Christians not really Christian? either way very judgmental of you
An atheist is the denial of the existence of God.. not God's truth. If we call them Jesus' truths, most atheists will agree that Jesus was a great teacher of morality and cause/effect.

BTW- all men have the holy spirit... some choose to use it (June) and some choose to ignore it (fundies)

But that is just my finite opinion. God's infinite grace and burden-less commandments are plain in the black and white of the bible. It is literals and fundies that "tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders" while sitting around doing nothing but pointing fingers.

Matthew 23:4 "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.

Jesus came to teach the gospel to the lost so that they can be found, not so they can be burdened again to sin.

When you try to accomplish the 10 commandments to the letter you are a slave to sin.

You are a slave to the Law, I am a freedman. You choose to be burdened by Christianity, I choose to be freed by Christianity.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-20-2009, 12:26 PM
 
37,596 posts, read 25,294,156 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I never said that, I said the biblical teacher has more insight than you. God gave gifts of teaching/ interpretation to certain people and we should learn from them comparing what they teach to scripture and praying over it. Do you possess such a gift?
You do NOT want a biblical teacher unless you want to retain the veil of ignorance over the written word . . . especially the OT fear doctrines and become a Biblean . . . not a Christian. Interpretation of the spiritual import of scripture can NOT be done with literal reading of scripture using the primitive and carnal understandings of the spiritual concepts. The mind of Christ and the love of Jesus must be used to glean the understanding "written in our hearts" with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Love and fear are incompatible and cannot be in the same mind at the same time.

The best way to destroy Jesus's message of love is to retain the ancient fear doctrine used at the beginning of our species spiritual development. Those who spread it under the veil of ignorance and superstition created by the OT interpretations of God are DENYING Jesus's entire purpose in bringing us the doctrine of LOVE and the good news that God is NOT wrathful, vengeful, jealous, or any other negative human emotion. God is love and HAS ALWAYS BEEN SO . . . NEVER any of the ugly traits assigned to Him by savage and fearful minds. God wants us to succeed and mature spiritually in "love of God and each other."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
An atheist is the denial of the existence of God.. not God's truth. If we call them Jesus' truths, most atheists will agree that Jesus was a great teacher of morality and cause/effect.

BTW- all men have the holy spirit... some choose to use it (June) and some choose to ignore it (fundies)

But that is just my finite opinion. God's infinite grace and burden-less commandments are plain in the black and white of the bible. It is literals and fundies that "tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders" while sitting around doing nothing but pointing fingers.

Matthew 23:4 "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.

Jesus came to teach the gospel to the lost so that they can be found, not so they can be burdened again to sin.

When you try to accomplish the 10 commandments to the letter you are a slave to sin.

You are a slave to the Law, I am a freedman. You choose to be burdened by Christianity, I choose to be freed by Christianity.

Poor June is gonna have to spend hours just to catch up on all the posts here!

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 12:30 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,282 posts, read 20,021,700 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I never said that, I said the biblical teacher has more insight than you. God gave gifts of teaching/ interpretation to certain people and we should learn from them comparing what they teach to scripture and praying over it. Do you possess such a gift?
Baloney, God is not a respector of persons ,anyone who has an open heart to the things of God can be taught directly by the Holy Spirit without the aide of another

Not once do i read in the following passage anything attributed to a teacher,pastor,prophet,evangelist.

Truth is not a doctrine Fundy , truth is the reality of God in our lives.

3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 12:43 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,207,476 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I think June has a better understanding than alot of "true" christians i have met...


Excuse me June here but I have wanted to ask this question for a while..perhaps if you could DM me your answer Ironmaw (and others if you so choose).. Do you think it is our faith that deems us righteous or Jesus' faith? I have very little faith... I am sure it is the size of a mustard seed. Jesus had an incredible amount of faith in God.. I see that in these passages that talk about faith it is most likely Jesus' faith not ours.. what do you think?



Yes.. I love Romans! Such a good read. Don't become burdened again with the law but instead rejoice in the freedom of Christ!
Just wanted to explain that as i understand it what little faith we have is his faith, its is a gift as he is the author of our faith.

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Hbr 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.



And honestly even faith is worthless without love ...

1Cr 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

So really faith alone doesn't cut it, which many "Christians" don't seem to understand at all.

As i understand it, one who has love but not faith is preferable to God over one with faith who is without love ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 10-20-2009 at 01:49 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Just wanted to explain that as i understand it what little faith we have is his faith, its is a gift which he is the author of our faith.

Eph 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Hbr 12:2
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.



And honestly even faith is worthless without love ...

1Cr 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

So really faith alone doesn't cut it, which many "Christians" don't seem to understand at all.

As i understand it, one who has love but not faith is preferable to God over one with faith who is without love ...
Yes that is how I understand it. Some think they have enough faith on their own when it is clear that that is not the case. Thanks for the insights.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 12:52 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,458,717 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
June should listen to God and no one else.
Uh, Christy? June wouldn't even begin to have a clue as to how to do that! That's because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl
Christy thinks June isn't as big a "heathen" as she claims to be.
She's a heathen!

"Thou shalt not confuse a smart atheist with a dumb one." Trust June: heathen. June would know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
No we don't all read the same bible's.
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Paul was speaking to Roman's not the whole world in the letter to the Roman's. He was speaking in terms and concepts that they could relate, according to their habits, and customs.

...one must be in league with the Holy Spirit in order to get the meat of the meanings.
It would seem to June that even for those who view the Bible as one of the great works of literature, that it would earn that distinction for a very good reason: That it contains wisdom that is not limited to a certain time, place, or culture. In other words, it is timeless in the message it contains. If June
needs to "be in the league of the holy spirit to get the meaning" then June is not going to get the meaning!? --Not even a somewhat, fairly intelligent atheist?

(Wow. And to think all this time June's been reading how everyone tells her and all the other atheists out there to read the Bible. June: confused.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Roman's is clearly the most over-read, and mis interpretted book of the New Testament.
Well, to be honest, June's found harder books in the Bible to read than Romans, but that's a whole other thread...June thinks there may well be merit in what you state about Roman's being the most "misinterpreted" book in the NT, the only thing is, you don't tell June how or why that is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
June find a good teacher, biggest mistake you can do is think you can do it on your own with just God, that is not even scriptural!
--It's also not even feasible! Who said anything about a teacher!?

June's not exactly thinking that she is doing "anything" on her own or "with just God." She's just readin' Romans! Just lookin' to better understand.

Stop scaring June!......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
Fundamentalist have a higher view of God, fundies defend the gospel better than the other sects
Could you explain "higher view?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
What was eliminated was work righteousness (doing works to earn your way into heaven) The Mosaic laws were used in the wrong manner, the law was twisted by the pharisees and Saducees forcing Jews to use the laws in obtaining salvation but in actuality the Law was there to show us that it was impossible for us to keep the laws let alone obtaining salvation and that we were in desperate need of a savior which is Jesus.
Wasn't that "work righteousness" that you refer to above in turn replaced by "faith!?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
As far as taking the bible literally. How else do we take it?
June's wondering how you 'take' those parables Jesus told...Because if we're talking literal all across the board, then June would imagine that you would have as much difficulty in fully understanding them as she does at times! (They aren't literal. That was the whole point behind them.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
Do we not take each other literally? and if God created speech and language structure how else will He communicate with us if not literally?
Actually, my friend, no. We don't always take one another literally. -At least June hopes not, otherwise, humor flies right out the window and we all have that much less to smile about in life.

June in no way could even fathom God communicating with mankind literally.

-But if he does, then why wouldn't he have gotten around to June by now?

Nope. No 'literal' communication from God to June. Nope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
Christ fulfilled or ended the law with His death on the cross, and with that we were given His spirit within us to continue to guide, instruct and allow others to see Him through us.
Yup. That's what June seems to remember being taught in a previous life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 01:06 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,458,717 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
WOW...not very loving you universalist-lover/ reconciler of all men you" An atheist knows the bible????? LOL.....Who is talking creepy if not illogical. I chalk it up to spiritual immaturity on your part.
"Wow" is right.

For what (very, very) little it may be worth, Fundamentalist, somehow, somewhere, at one time, June (even then an atheist) managed to complete a degree in Theology and Religious Studies.

-What was that? Divine intervention?

(June apologizes for her sarcasm...That wasn't very nice of June.)

But seriously: It is hardly "illogical" that even the likes of June could managed to understand all this stuff -at least sufficiently enough- at one time, don't ya think!? -Because even though June was just adorable even back then in undergraduate school (especially in undergrad!) she realizes that they didn't hand out diplomas just based on an 'adorable index.'

June also doesn't think it was very nice to call that other member 'spiritually immature.' That made June sad.

Take gentle re-think this one care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,399,716 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
"Wow" is right.

For what (very, very) little it may be worth, Fundamentalist, somehow, somewhere, at one time, June (even then an atheist) managed to complete a degree in Theology and Religious Studies.

-What was that? Divine intervention?

(June apologizes for her sarcasm...That wasn't very nice of June.)

But seriously: It is hardly "illogical" that even the likes of June could managed to understand all this stuff -at least sufficiently enough- at one time, don't ya think!? -Because even though June was just adorable even back then in undergraduate school (especially in undergrad!) she realizes that they didn't hand out diplomas just based on an 'adorable index.'

June also doesn't think it was very nice to call that other member 'spiritually immature.' That made June sad.

Take gentle re-think this one care.
Wow you sure caught up fast! I guess my worries were for naught!

I don't mind being called "spiritually immature" anymore than you mind being called "a heathen." It is all subjective. I am spiritually wise or so I have been told as well... but again I count myself as having a lot of room to grow!

BTW- Isn't it amazing that some fundies (and others) think the gospel is so convoluted and complicated that even with a degree in theology you can't understand it?

It goes back to exclusivity of religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-20-2009, 01:36 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,111,632 times
Reputation: 636
June, I struggle with Romans, and whether the law is null or void . .


John says . . those who do not keep the commandments are liars . . . . Jesus said . . if you love him, keep my father's commandments . . . all through the New Testament, even in the last book, we read that those who keep the commandments.

I used to think that when we strived to keep the commandments, it was legalism, legalistic . . .

But when you look at the commandments . . . they are all about LOVE . . . the first 4 about love of God . . . and the last 6 love of our fellow man . . .

I think that we all strive to keep them . . . but we are not SAVED by them . . . but I don't think Jesus voided out these commandments, instead . . . he said not only not to commit adultery . . don't lust . . . if we steal, cut off our hand . . . it took them further . . .

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill," (Matt. 5:17).

"Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law," (Rom. 3:31).

"You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself," (Matt. 19:18).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top