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Old 10-20-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,229 posts, read 19,996,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post



Q.How did He silence the Pharisee's?

A.By quoting and or referring to the Scripture.

Q.What did He read when He stood up in the synagogue?

A.The Book of Isaiah.

Most of the time He was not quoting the scripture to the Pharisees , mostly He was exposing the condition of their hearts , with such things as "He who is without sin let him cast the first stone","It's not what goes in you that makes you unclean but what comes out of you", ", "you are a bunch off white washed tombs","You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him?" and many more such things did He say to them.So not much scripture quoting at all.He also spoke a lot of parables which are not scriptures.

What He read in the synagogue was scriptures concerning Himself, before the Fundy's of the day threw Him out.

He also said search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life but they are they which testify of me.You see the Pharisees worshipped their bible but hadn't got a clue about the spiritual content of it or who it was testifying of.

Last edited by pcamps; 10-20-2009 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,120,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I follow and love Jesus over all else. I throw out nothing. SPIRITUAL truth exists in the primitive recordings of those savage minds . . . but not in the literal renderings currently used by those wishing to retain the antiquated primitive understandings despite 2000+ years of enlightenment and knowledge. God is no extortionist and does not punish us. That does NOT mean there are no negative consequences for our failures to develop spiritually . . . but those consequences are corrective and measured accordingly . . . NOT indiscriminate (i.e., all sins are equal) or eternal!
There are those who will cling to the dead letter and never search for the deeper spiritual truths of God...until they stand before Him and have to explain why. Christy thinks there will be very many surprised "Christians" in that day.
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:26 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,594,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Most of the time He was not quoting the scripture to the Pharisees , mostly He was exposing the condition of their hearts , with such things as "He who is without sin let him cast the first stone","It's not what goes in you that makes you unclean but what comes out of you", ", "you are a bunch off white washed tombs","You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him?" and many more such things did He say to them.So not much scripture quoting at all.He also spoke a lot of parables which are not scriptures.

What He read in the synagogue was scriptures concerning Himself, before the Fundy's of the day threw Him out.

He also said search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life but they are they which testify of me.You see the Pharisees worshipped their bible but hadn't got a clue about the spiritual content of it or who it was testifying of.
That is not true. Matt. 4:4=Deut. 8:3; 4:6=Psa. 91:11; v.7=Deut. 6:16; v.10=Deut. 6:13, 21:31=Zech 13:7, etc etc.

Matthew 26:30 "And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives."

This is the same mount that Jesus gave His last teaching on, that we read of in Matthew chapters 23-25.

The hymns that Jesus and the disciples sang were the songs sang at the feast of the unleavened bread. They were Psalm 115, 116, 117, and 118.

In the Hebrew text, they are known as the "Hallewlu-Yah" chapters. Which in the Hebrew means, "Praise ye the Lord."

John 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent."

The Scriptures had written of the coming of Jesus the Messiah in many places. The entire O.T. was a witness to Christ's coming. Jesus is telling them, to please the Father, the one who sent the Son, you must believe on the Son, Jesus Christ. If you want to please God the Father, then listen to the Son.

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, "And they shall be all taught of God." Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me."

Jesus is now going to tell us of those things that are symbolic, which are His body and His blood. His "body" is the bread of Life, and when Jesus gave the five thousand the barley loaves [for barley ripened thirty days prior to the wheat], it became symbolic of the first fruits

John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."

John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of Myself, and the Father That sent Me beareth witness of Me."

This would be very easy to say, I am one witness, and the one that sent me is another. Any one that can talk could make that statement, but it was written in Scriptures every detail of Jesus life. His birth to even the time and place where He would be born, and all the details of His Ministry. It was the Father that bear witness, for it was the Father that gave the words for the Prophets to write down. This then is the double witness, the Father and the Son.

John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods?"

Jesus is reminding them that what He had said, was a quote from their law. It is written in Psalm 82:6; "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High."

What is talked about here is the ownership of the child. If you have a child in the flesh, your son or daughter is yours by ownership, to have and discipline, and teach the ways of God. Jesus is telling them that when you are of God, then God owns you, and you are the possession of God ["ye are God's"] by the fact that you have become His son. Keep in mind that here the Psalms are included in the law.

Also as Christ hung on the cross He quoted the first line of Psa. 22.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:33 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,229 posts, read 19,996,777 times
Reputation: 2108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
That is not true. Matt. 4:4=Deut. 8:3; 4:6=Psa. 91:11; v.7=Deut. 6:16; v.10=Deut. 6:13, 21:31=Zech 13:7, etc etc.

Matthew 26:30 "And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives."

This is the same mount that Jesus gave His last teaching on, that we read of in Matthew chapters 23-25.

The hymns that Jesus and the disciples sang were the songs sang at the feast of the unleavened bread. They were Psalm 115, 116, 117, and 118.

In the Hebrew text, they are known as the "Hallewlu-Yah" chapters. Which in the Hebrew means, "Praise ye the Lord."

John 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent."

The Scriptures had written of the coming of Jesus the Messiah in many places. The entire O.T. was a witness to Christ's coming. Jesus is telling them, to please the Father, the one who sent the Son, you must believe on the Son, Jesus Christ. If you want to please God the Father, then listen to the Son.

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, "And they shall be all taught of God." Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me."

Jesus is now going to tell us of those things that are symbolic, which are His body and His blood. His "body" is the bread of Life, and when Jesus gave the five thousand the barley loaves [for barley ripened thirty days prior to the wheat], it became symbolic of the first fruits

John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."

John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of Myself, and the Father That sent Me beareth witness of Me."

This would be very easy to say, I am one witness, and the one that sent me is another. Any one that can talk could make that statement, but it was written in Scriptures every detail of Jesus life. His birth to even the time and place where He would be born, and all the details of His Ministry. It was the Father that bear witness, for it was the Father that gave the words for the Prophets to write down. This then is the double witness, the Father and the Son.

John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods?"

Jesus is reminding them that what He had said, was a quote from their law. It is written in Psalm 82:6; "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High."

What is talked about here is the ownership of the child. If you have a child in the flesh, your son or daughter is yours by ownership, to have and discipline, and teach the ways of God. Jesus is telling them that when you are of God, then God owns you, and you are the possession of God ["ye are God's"] by the fact that you have become His son. Keep in mind that here the Psalms are included in the law.

Also as Christ hung on the cross He quoted the first line of Psa. 22.
First of all i did not say Jesus did not quote scripture. I said most of the time in dealing with Pharisees He was not quoting scriptures.

For every one scripture Jesus quoted He spoke far more words which were not scriptures, what i stated in my post were just a few of the many kind of things He spoke to the Pharisees , He was incessant on exposing their hypocrisy .

So what you are saying is Jesus and the disciples sang hymns to the Pharisees ?.

Without exaggeration what Jesus said which was not scripture was at the very least a 100-1 ratio. He didn't need to quote scripture, HE WAS AND IS THE SCRIPTURE.


Hebrews 1

Jesus is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.

It is also very interesting that Jesus said to the Pharisees in your Law . Why did Jesus say your law instead of the law or our law or the law says ? I have no doubt it was because that which God had given them had become a golden calf , just like the bible we know today as become a golden calf made up from a melting pot of church doctrines and traditions.

Last edited by pcamps; 10-21-2009 at 04:47 AM..
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Old 10-21-2009, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 844,821 times
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This is still what is taught, even if you won't face it. The usual objection atheists make to what they unfortunately think is Christian doctrine, something needed to be believed to be a follower of Jesus, is they cannot believe in a God who would ceaselessly torture for ever anything, much less his own creation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I guess the question is, if you think that torturing the vast majority of humans who have ever lived or who will ever live for ever is a good thing does that exemplify love?
It must also be kept in mind that you become like your god. (In English speaking countries, the last in Europe, this was done in 1401 with making heretico carborendo the law. To have even parts of the Bible, like the 10 Commandments or the Lords Prayer in English proved you were a heretic to be consigned to temporal flames in hopes of saving you from eternal flames.) According to you He tortures for ever countless sentient beings, with no cessation and no hope of release, all the while whispering to them, "I love you, I love you, I love you." You must be made in the image and likeness of your god, A Master Torturer.

This is a present issue in the body of Christ, just as returning the ministry to the people of God is. We can maintain the unity of the Spirit...until we come into the unity of the faith and knowledge of the Son of God; but, there are many people who are not going to go according to the proverb, "Don't rock the boat" but intend to sink it if need be. Things are going to change in how we do Church and how we understand God. There is a cause. Many lives have been damaged by bad religion that merchandises the word of God.

What I hope we are doing here in debating doctrine is akin to what is mentioned in the following commands for how we meet. We take turns sharing and are to "judge," or as the CLT has it, "discriminate" what is spoken. The Greek is the ancestor of our word "crisis" and is contained in the term I like, "critique," we are to critique what others do and say as we meet as the bride.

"Now, as to prophets, let two or three speak, and let the others discriminate. Yet if it should be revealed to another sitting by, let the first hush, for you can all be prophesying one by one, that all may be learning and all be consoled." (1 Co 14:29-31, CLT)

God has been encouraging me to call a thing for what it is. Stop being so effeminized by our culture. Quit trying to make so many excuses for other people who, for instance, are in "Christian" media, but lie against what is actually written in the Scripture. They also lie against those that uphold what is written rather than propagate the traditions of men. They are the schismatics, rejecting and reviling those that don't agree with every punctilio of their doctrine. We don't want their venues or most of their people that have in 40 years only learned to sit down and shut up. We already have homes to meet in. At some point they must be called what they are, modern Pharisees, trapped in the harlot church system, sometimes apostates, sometimes just ignorant. Well, many of us are trying to find ways to see to it they aren't going to stay ignorant. God will exhonorate those who stand for the truth against those who who only approve each other without regard for the evident approval of God. Because they hold the microphone they think they are Divinely appointed to judge what is orthdoxy and orthopraxy. We'll see about that.

"Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another." (Mk 9:50, AV)

Last edited by JamesMRohde; 10-21-2009 at 11:21 PM..
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,716,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
No! If I saw it in scripture-God's word no matter how much I try to exegete it and I still see God allowing rape then who am I to question God's word?
I must admit I am at a loss for words. I really think you need to rethink some things.

Really don't mean to spoil your thread but that is scary. Coming from a fellow Caribbean native, I'm stunned. But then again, now that I think of it, I shouldn't be.
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Old 10-22-2009, 06:46 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,229 posts, read 19,996,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I must admit I am at a loss for words. I really think you need to rethink some things.

Really don't mean to spoil your thread but that is scary. Coming from a fellow Caribbean native, I'm stunned. But then again, now that I think of it, I shouldn't be.
This comment from Fundamentalist comes from a warped concept of the nature and character of God and through a complete misunderstanding of

Isaiah 55


8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

In other words he believes if God allows rape it's because is ways and thoughts are higher than ours .
When infact if God was like that His thoughts and ways would be lower than ours .
Yet for some reason Fundamentalist can not see that .
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:02 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I must admit I am at a loss for words. I really think you need to rethink some things.

Really don't mean to spoil your thread but that is scary. Coming from a fellow Caribbean native, I'm stunned. But then again, now that I think of it, I shouldn't be.
That is ok but I can only go from scripture (if scripture said that) not your feelings
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:03 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
This comment from Fundamentalist comes from a warped concept of the nature and character of God and through a complete misunderstanding of

Isaiah 55


8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

In other words he believes if God allows rape it's because is ways and thoughts are higher than ours .
When infact if God was like that His thoughts and ways would be lower than ours .
Yet for some reason Fundamentalist can not see that .

YouTube - Can You Feel The Love Tonight
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:08 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,229 posts, read 19,996,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
That is ok but I can only go from scripture (if scripture said that) not your feelings
Well scripture does not say what you are saying Fundy (Is that better)
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