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Old 10-20-2009, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
Reputation: 837

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Ezekiel 18

(21) God sheweth how He dealeth with a wicked man repenting: (24) with a just man revolting. (25) He defendeth His justice, (31) and exhortedth to repentance.
************
21)But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22)All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done, he shall live.
23)Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24)But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them he shall die.
25)Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26) When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27)Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28)Because he considereth, and turnetth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29)Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Isreal, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30)Therfore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31)Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32)For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yoursleves, and live ye.


Crystal clear. You will live in righteousness. You will die in your sins...your very soul will die forever in your sins if you do not turn...if you do not repent. And anyone that says different, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:05 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,165 posts, read 19,971,676 times
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Romans 2 verse 4 It's the goodness/kindness of God that causes/leads a man to repentence .
In otherwords we didn't decide to do it, because that would leave the door wide open to boast in ourselves.
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Old 10-20-2009, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,814,422 times
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Default Verna I'm Shocked!

You say that you know where Sundance's heart is?! I thought only god knew a person's heart! ?
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,459 posts, read 21,202,746 times
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I have reopened this thread at the request of the op...Please be advised that any more attacks, insults or off topic posts will not be tolerated..
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
You say that you know where Sundance's heart is?! I thought only god knew a person's heart! ?
Dear DaniMae,

A person can be judged a true Christian, or not, by the fruit of their words and actions. If their words and actions are vile...then what is in their heart is vile. As a man thinketh, so is he. A person is who they are in their heart...and when hatred and wickedness comes from their mouth...they are not a true Christian.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Ezekiel 18

(21) God sheweth how He dealeth with a wicked man repenting: (24) with a just man revolting. (25) He defendeth His justice, (31) and exhortedth to repentance.
************
21)But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22)All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done, he shall live.
23)Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24)But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them he shall die.
25)Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26) When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27)Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28)Because he considereth, and turnetth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29)Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Isreal, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30)Therfore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31)Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32)For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yoursleves, and live ye.


Crystal clear. You will live in righteousness. You will die in your sins...your very soul will die forever in your sins if you do not turn...if you do not repent. And anyone that says different, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Sincere question here:

Why do you use Old Covenant sayings and think they apply to the New Covenant?

Are you Jewish? Because I am a devout Gentile . None of my ancestors.. that I know of anyway, were ever under the Old Covenant.

I just wonder why you hold to the Old when Jesus brought an new and better covenant...

Anyway just had a question.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:12 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,564,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Crystal clear. You will live in righteousness. You will die in your sins...your very soul will die forever in your sins if you do not turn...if you do not repent
Anyone who died in their sins is lost forever?
  • Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
  • Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
  • Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
  • Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry
  • Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,234,778 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Sincere question here:

Why do you use Old Covenant sayings and think they apply to the New Covenant?

Are you Jewish? Because I am a devout Gentile . None of my ancestors.. that I know of anyway, were ever under the Old Covenant.

I just wonder why you hold to the Old when Jesus brought an new and better covenant...

Anyway just had a question.
A sincere answer to a sincere question...

Matthew 4:4 But Jesus answered, and said, "It is written, * Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."


[Now, please notice kat, that Jesus himself was quoting Old Testament Scripture in His Gospel of Matthew].

This is the Old Testament that Jesus lived by:

* Deuteronomy 8: "An exortation by Moses to obedience in regard of God's dealing with them."

1) All the commandments which I command thee this day, shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and muliply, and go in, and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers.
2) And thou shalt rmember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these fourty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep His commandments, or no.
3) And He humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with Manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know: that He might make thee know, that man doth not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.

All Scripture is Holy and God breathed kat..all of it...from the beginning of Genesis, to the end of Revelation, it is the living Word of the Living God...and I love every precious Word of it.

2 Timothy 3:

12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ jesus shall suffer persecution.
13) But evil men and seduvers shall wax worse and wrse, deceiving and being deceived.
14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15) and that from a child thu hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17) That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 4:

1) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom;
2) Preach the Word; be instant in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine,
3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5) but watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make proof of thy ministry.

God is going to have a people...and I desire more than anything to be one of them.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:25 AM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,564,558 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
All Scripture is Holy and God breathed kat..all of it...from the beginning of Genesis, to the end of Revelation, it is the living Word of the Living God...and I love every precious Word of it.
Yup... all of it... for instruction in righteousness... that the man of God may be perfect....
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
A sincere answer to a sincere question...

Matthew 4:4 But Jesus answered, and said, "It is written, * Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
I would underline the MOUTH of God part because scripture is from the pen of man, not the mouth of God but that is another debate altogether.

Quote:
[Now, please notice kat, that Jesus himself was quoting Old Testament Scripture in His Gospel of Matthew].

This is the Old Testament that Jesus lived by:

* Deuteronomy 8: "An exortation by Moses to obedience in regard of God's dealing with them."

1) All the commandments which I command thee this day, shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and muliply, and go in, and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers.
2) And thou shalt rmember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these fourty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep His commandments, or no.
3) And He humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with Manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know: that He might make thee know, that man doth not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.
I understand what you are trying to convey here but Jesus came saying that the Law was not able to cure the disease of the conscience. He kept the Law because of his being a Jew but when it came to healing a sick woman on the sabbath he healed her... so apparently that commandment is not set in stone.. pun intended.

Quote:
All Scripture is Holy and God breathed kat..all of it...from the beginning of Genesis, to the end of Revelation, it is the living Word of the Living God...and I love every precious Word of it.
I think the bible is valuable to but I don't think it is God breathed or holy. God is holy but the bible is just a book. When you say that it is more than a book of instruction you come close to making it an idol. The bible is not alive. It is a book with words that have different meaning then than now. For example.. the valley of Hinnom was commonly known during that time but now it is just a valley. Also the word RACA means nothing to us now but then it did....so if the meaning and use of words can vary from generation to generation then the bible not changing really tells us that it is a recording of things meant for that specific time not for us to follow word for word.

Quote:
2 Timothy 3:

12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ jesus shall suffer persecution.
13) But evil men and seduvers shall wax worse and wrse, deceiving and being deceived.
14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15) and that from a child thu hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17) That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 4:

1) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom;
2) Preach the Word; be instant in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine,
3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5) but watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make proof of thy ministry.

God is going to have a people...and I desire more than anything to be one of them.
I understand what you are saying, I just don't know how you can see the transition between the old and the new yet still propose that the old is more or equally relevant given that the new is a greater and better promise. What is better about it if it is just the same as the old?

I see that you are burdening yourself with things like this when there are about 15 verses that expressly state that Christ brought freedom in the new not slavery to the old.

But thanks for the explanation of your views.
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