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Old 10-23-2009, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,120,238 times
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[quote=Jazzymom;11312069]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
First, the Bible is not just a book,


Sure it is like other religious texts. Written by many men over a period of time and divinely inspired.

Anytime you have books written down by men you don't have something literal or infallible.

Does that mean it is doesn't have important information? No.

It means that it cannot be taken literally.



The bible is full of stories, poems, written by ancient men speaking to what was going on around them. The epic story of the freeing of the Israelites from Egyptian slavery. The wandering in the desert and the teaching of the ancient Hebrews of the law. The event on Mt Sinai and the formation of the Jewish people and the covenant with God. Stories for the people who were being affected by what was going on around them.
As a Jew I understand that much of the Tanakh (bible) is full of the history of my people and the prophets were speaking to them and speaking to what was happening to them.

Much of what Christianity has to say about the Christian bible is very different to how the Jews see it and for me I see a religion that took a religious text from another and changed its meaning. For that reason alone it is not literal or infallible.


Today we can still get important information from the bible.

There were many writers, not just 1.
Ahhhh...another voice of reason. I absolutely agree with you. If one would actually take the time and study where exactly the bible came from they would understand that it is in no way inerrant or infallible. I love reading the bible and I apply many useful things that I read to my life but I don't live and die by every single word that is written, especially when I know that the original writings of the Apostles have been rewritten and edited by others. Those who cling for deal life to a book, who idolize and worship the words written by human carnal minds....well we need to pray that their spiritual eyes are opened so they can see God clearly for who He is, what He is and what the words written in the book really mean to us and to Him.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:17 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,299,884 times
Reputation: 806
I get it you or others don't want to, but why question?

Honestly, you don't get it, I don't get it either, why people wouldn't live by the bible. So, we both don't get it. But I don't question others motives, because that is there business.

Because probably their is real curiosity? Isn't this a forum about Christianity? Asking questions is how folks get information. There are many different Christian denominations, and thus many different Christian worldviews.

It truly is a good question because since I was a kid I struggled with the Christian belief that all others are condemned to hell and not just bad people. All people, even those who believe in and love God, and pray to God. Folks would say its in the bible..... Many questions I would ask were met by a bible verse or I was told to question is to question God.

I never came up with an answers so I am not Christian.

I love God and I have a religious community but I have never understood how folks can throw verses at others and expect them to just drop their beliefs and "get saved"

I also have never understood how folks can throw verses out and have no historical understanding at where they come from or why they were written, who they were written for.
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Old 10-23-2009, 08:18 AM
 
73 posts, read 114,368 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
You are not being rude . . you are asking a valid question.

At one time Iw as clueless about religion . . . and I still am. It's not about a religion or a denomination that you are asking here, it is about a book.


The Bible presents a great problem to mankind. Shall we believe this Book, or belittle it? Shall we endorse it, or ignore it? Shall we follow it, or fight it? It is either a light that guides, or a lie that beguiles. Which is it? It is either a great force, or a great farce; it either contains directions or deceptions, depending upon the validity of its claims.

Is the Bible the product of God, or the product of man? Since man has never been able to write a better one, it sounds as if it came from God. Since it is in a class all by itself, it sounds as though it could not have come from man. Since men have never been able to destroy it, though they have desperately tried to do so, it must be the product of God. Since there has never been known to be a principle for better living which the Bible does not incorporate, surely God inspired the writing of it!

Consider the accuracy of the Bible. Time was when the Bible was the only information men had on certain historical data. The Bible contained names of some kings that historians had no other record of. Some therefore doubted that such kings existed. I refer particularly to King Arioch, mentioned in the fourteenth Chapter of Genesis, and King Sargon mentioned in the twentieth Chapter of Isaiah. While men once denied that these kings existed, historians now say that they did exist. Through archaeological discoveries, the very foundation of one of their palaces has been unearthed, giving some information and dates about his deeds, all of which confirms the Bible account. Does this sound as though man thought up the idea of the Bible?

How did Paul know that God made of "one blood" all nations of men to dwell upon the face of the earth? He declared this scientific truth in the seventeenth chapter of Acts, verse twenty-six. Only in recent years have cytologists proved this to be a scientific fact, yet Paul declared it in the long, long ago. How do you account for it? Only on the ground that he spoke as God directed him. Many such truths as these are found in the Bible, and these have baffled the minds of scientists. In fact, there is not a known fact of science that contradicts the Bible. Many theories of science contradict the Bible, but no known fact of science does. How can this be accounted for? There is one answer, and that is, God is the author of both science and the Bible.

Whenever I would pickup the Bible, I was either bored, or made no sense of it . . . but God called me to Him, kept nudging me, and that's another story . . . but when I realized that there was a God, a Creator, etc., I couldn't put the bible down .. it's a spiritual thing, now I just want to learn as much as I for the past few years have not gone a day without reading it and getting joy, comfort, and guidance.
I read a Spiderman comic when I was a kid; does that mean he really exists too?

And as far as bible science goes. what about these gems:

[SIZE=4]1. Genesis 1:1 ~ [/SIZE] [SIZE=4]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.[/SIZE][SIZE=4] But when? [/SIZE][SIZE=4]Based on biblical calculations (Theophilus of Antioc; To Autolycus, 169) the earth was created by an act of God 7,500 years ago. However, when measured scientifically (Dalrymple, G. Brent; The Age of the Earth, 1991) by radiometric dating, a family of techniques based on the spontaneous decay of long-lived naturally occurring radio active isotopes, the Earth, the Moon and the meteorites turn out to be between 4.5 and 4.6 billion years old[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]2. Genesis 1:11-12 ~ [/SIZE] [SIZE=4]And God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth." And it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. Here we have vegetation growing and thriving before there was sunlight.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]3. Genesis 3:16 ~ In sorrow (pain) thou shall bring forth children. First, are we to understand that the physical pain associated with normal childbirth is the result solely of this ancient curse? Second, did the virgin Mary have to endure this curse-induced pain in birthing Jesus or did she receive a godly dispensation?[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]4. Genesis 9 ~ This chapter tells of a covenant wherein God promises never again to flood the entire earth. Because he tended to be somewhat forgetful, God puts a "(rain) bow in the clouds" to remind him of this promise (vs.16). Are we to believe that there were no rainbows before that time as is plainly implied? Did the atmospheric laws of refraction, which have operated for millions of years, suddenly change on that day? Not likely.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]5. Genesis 11:9 ~ Therefore its name was called Ba'bel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. According to this passage all of the world's languages appeared suddenly in their present form not as the result of the natural ongoing process of growth and development but simply as the result of god's retribution.
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[SIZE=4]6. Genesis 19:26 ~ Lot's wife behind him looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. Are we expected to take this statement literally? Alleged miracles such as this violate the most fundamental laws of science. In fact, miracles are supernatural events and, because they violate natural law, are by definition unscientific .
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[SIZE=4]7. Genesis 30:37-39 ~ Then Jacob took fresh rods of poplar and almond and plane, and peeled white streaks in them, exposing the white of the rods. He set the rods which he had peeled in front of the flocks at the watering troughs where the flocks came to breed. Because they bred in front of the rods, the flocks brought forth striped, speckled, and spotted offspring. This passage qualifies as pure nonsense. It flies directly in the face of everything we know about modern genetics and how the mechanics of inherited physical characteristics works.
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[SIZE=4]8. Exodus 22:18 ~ Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. The Bible writers believed in the existence of witches.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]9. Leviticus 11:6 ~ And the hare, because he cheweth the cud.... Hares, like rabbits, are lagomorphs, not ruminants. They do not chew the cud.
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[SIZE=4]10. Leviticus 11:13-19 ~ These are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten , . . . the eagle, and . . . the bat. The bat is not a fowl. It’s a mammal.
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[SIZE=4]11. Leviticus 11:20 ~ All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you. There is not now nor has there ever been a 4-legged fowl[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]12. Leviticus 11:21 ~ These may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap upon the earth. Here we have another absurd reference to four-legged animals that fly.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]13. Leviticus 11:22-23 ~ These ye may eat; the locust...and the beetle...and the grasshopper. But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you. There is no such thing as a 4-legged insect.
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[SIZE=4]14. Deuteronomy 14:7 ~ . . . as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof. Here the Bible writer(s) compound the “cud” blunder by implying that the hare has hoofs.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]15. Deuteronomy 32.11~ As the eagle taketh her young and bearth them on her wings. Eagles have never been known to carry their young on their wings.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]16 Joshua 10:13 ~ The sun stood still, and the moon stayed. The sun has always stood still in relation to the earth. The Old Testament writers were obviously laboring under the misconception that the sun, not the earth, was moving in an earth-centered universe.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]17. 1st Samuel 2:8 ~ For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them. 1 Chronicles 16:30 ~ He fixed the earth firm and immovable. Psalm 93:1 ~ The world also is established, that it cannot be moved. This erroneous concept of cosmology, that the earth is immovable, rests on pillars and has a foundation, is echoed in several ancient middle eastern religions all of which predate the Old Testament. The Judeo/Christian concept was in all probability copied from them. It is obviously wrong.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]18. I Kings 7:23 ~ He then made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim. A line of thirty cubits would encircle it completely. The constant Pi (π), the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle, is not a simple 3 as is here stated. While the decimal expansion of π runs to infinity, for practical purposes it is commonly rounded to 3.1416. This same error is repeated in II Chronicles 4:2. It is a known historical fact that both the Egyptians and Babylonians had approximated π to a few decimal places long before the oldest books of the Bible were written.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]19. 2nd Kings 5:27 ~ As punishment for his greed, the prophet Elisha announced to his servant Gehazi that, “The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave to thee, and into thy seed for ever. And he (Gehazi) went out from his presence a leper as white as snow.” Here we are told in all seriousness that a person can be totally consumed with leprosy at a moments notice simply as a result of a whim of divine judgment.
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[SIZE=4]20. 2nd Kings 20:11 ~ And Isaiah brought the shadow back ten steps, by which the sun had declined on the dial of Ahaz. So, the sun not only stopped its normal rotation, it actually went into reverse and rotated backward a full 10 degrees! Here again is proof positive that the Old Testament writers were secure in their belief that the earth is at the center of the universe and all of the heavenly bodies rotate around it. How can anyone take such obvious nonsense seriously?
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[SIZE=4]21. Isaiah 11:12 ~ He shall...gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Perhaps this verse was meant only as a figure of speech because a sphere has no corners.
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[SIZE=4]22 Matthew 13:31-32 ~ Jesus said, The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree. The mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds. Others, such as the orchid seed, are smaller. Also, shrubs do not grow into trees[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]23. Matthew 24:29 ~ Jesus said, . . . the stars will fall from the sky . . . Stars are essentially huge globs of burning hydrogen some of which are many times larger than the earth and millions of light years away. They do not "fall." In addition to being wrong, this stands as another testimonial to the outlandish concept of an earth centered universe.
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[SIZE=4]24. Mark 16:18 ~ Jesus said, They shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Many Christians have come to regret ever having taken this verse seriously. However, the supreme irony here is that the last twelve verses of Mark (16:9-20) are a recognized forgery. See "The Long and the Short" in New Testament Forgeries on this web site.[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]25. Luke 1:44 ~ Elizabeth said to Mary, Lo, as soon as the voice of your salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Are we to believe that a fetus in the womb can not only hear and understand speech, but comprehend its subtle meanings and implications, and respond appropriately?[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]26. John 12:24 ~ Jesus said, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. How could something that is dead bring forth anything?[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=4]27. James 5:3 ~ Your gold and silver are cankered, and the rust on them shall be witness against you . . . Everyone knows that gold and silver do not rust.
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[SIZE=4]28. 2nd Peter 3:5 ~ [/SIZE] [SIZE=4]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:[/SIZE][SIZE=4] Just how land is created out of water is never explained.[/SIZE]
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:24 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2redheads View Post
No it's not justified it just means that your brain did not develop like it should have when you were little and that you have major problems.
WOW! Are you imposing your sense of wrong or right over my sense of wrong or right? Just what authority are you basing this off if not yours? That's not very tolerant nor are you practicing what you preach about, "the individual being their own authority"
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:31 AM
 
282 posts, read 456,149 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by fundamentalist View Post
wow! Are you imposing your sense of wrong or right over my sense of wrong or right? Just what authority are you basing this off if not yours? That's not very tolerant nor are you practicing what you preach about, "the individual being their own authority"

what the he double hockey stick are you talking about, you lost me after your 1st post.... If you are trying to make a point then make it, like i said you lost me at your 1st post???
Sorry for the caps, it's stuck! it's not about wrong or right here, i am asking a question why people follow the bible to live their life i do not understand how murdering someone and trying to justify that has anything to do with what i am asking?? It's funny how you answer questions WITH questions???
Also, where did I say in my posts that following the bible or not following the bible is wrong?
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,120,238 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2redheads View Post
what the he double hockey stick are you talking about, you lost me after your 1st post.... If you are trying to make a point then make it, like i said you lost me at your 1st post???
Sorry for the caps, it's stuck! it's not about wrong or right here, i am asking a question why people follow the bible to live their life i do not understand how murdering someone and trying to justify that has anything to do with what i am asking?? It's funny how you answer questions WITH questions???
Also, where did I say in my posts that following the bible or not following the bible is wrong?

Ha, ha, ha, ha......that's FUNDY for ya!!
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:45 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2redheads View Post
what the he double hockey stick are you talking about, you lost me after your 1st post.... If you are trying to make a point then make it, like i said you lost me at your 1st post???
Sorry for the caps, it's stuck! it's not about wrong or right here, i am asking a question why people follow the bible to live their life i do not understand how murdering someone and trying to justify that has anything to do with what i am asking?? It's funny how you answer questions WITH questions???
Also, where did I say in my posts that following the bible or not following the bible is wrong?
You said and I quote,
Quote:
I just don't get it, why can't you live your own life and make your own decisions on what you think is right or wrong, or what you should and shouldn't do.


My decision is to kill you, So why can't I kill you? What immoral authority prevents me doing committing such an act
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,120,238 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You said and I quote,

My decision is to kill you, So why can't I kill you? What immoral authority prevents me doing committing such an act
Fundy...why are being such a horses butt to someone who is asking a legitimate question
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:56 AM
 
282 posts, read 456,149 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You said and I quote,

My decision is to kill you, So why can't I kill you? What immoral authority prevents me doing committing such an act

OK good for you that is your decision....notice when I wrote that paragraph it had other sentences in it also. You pick out 2 sentences in my comment and take it from there??? All you see is 2 sentences....others see the whole comment, that is why others were able to answer my question and you are here answering my questions with questions. If you don't know then don't post, it's pretty simple if you ask me
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Old 10-23-2009, 10:57 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,455,222 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Fundy...why are being such a horses butt to someone who is asking a legitimate question
I am answering her question. If no bible, then no divine authority, without divine authority man becomes the authority if man becomes the authority then authority is relative, nothing is right and wrong because no can can claim absolute authority of what is right and wrong and everything no matter how wrong or evil we think it is just becomes different.
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