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Old 10-20-2009, 07:35 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
Reputation: 636

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Because I believe this is a sound biblical doctrine, I would like to share some scriptural evidence to support it . . . I think it is a very important doctrine to be clear on.

I want to step by step break this down for everyone. One’s opinion should only reflect the truth read straight from the bible.


John 5: 28-30 (NIV)

Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out – those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgement is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Here Jesus tells those who are listening how the dead will come forth from their graves

This obviously is a huge corner stone to support the “soul sleep” theory and who will argue with Jesus?

Daniel 12:2

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Here is another scripture that backs up the soul sleep concept. Not only does it support John 5: 28-30 it says the same thing but words it in such a way people better understand.

John 3:13

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven- the Son of Man.

With this scripture we realize the soul sleep theory is more then just a theory it is fact. It is unfortunate this scripture does run into conflict with another passage. I would like to go ahead and look at it together.

Luke 23:43

Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Now for some this may seem like an ah hah moment but let me reassure you it is not. Jesus was quite obviously a unique individual which is a gross under statement but he was Jesus. He could do anything and if he swelled up with compassion for this criminal on the cross then yes he can take him up once Jesus died then the criminal. To me this is an exception to the rule because let’s face it, Jesus can decide to take you with him if he so desires. This brings me to another “challenge verse”.

Luke 16: 19-31

This rather large piece of scripture that stands on the “challenge side” is surprisingly simple enough to understand. At the time Jesus is teaching those around him and in Luke 16 you find the parable of the shred manager. Unfortunately those who do not support the “soul sleep” concept will find neither does this scripture. WHY!? you scream! Because Jesus is telling a story and not fact(s).
My assessment . . . you die – and then the next thing you are aware of is that you wake up to be judged. It isn’t as though you are conscious during ’soul sleep’.

Last edited by lifesigns64; 10-20-2009 at 07:53 PM..
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:37 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
Reputation: 636
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Fatherís house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Here Jesus is talking to His disciples and He knew they will be dead when He will return to receive them unto Him.

Where do you suppose we are now if we are dead and not with Jesus? These are the words of Jesus.

I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also..
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:40 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
Reputation: 636
1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.


1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:43 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
Reputation: 636
John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "
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Old 10-20-2009, 08:43 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7415
Revelation 6:9-11 And when He broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the SOULS of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained , 10) and they cried out with a loud voice,saying,''how long, O Lord, holy and true, wilt Thou refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?''

These are the conscious souls of believers in Heaven who had been martyred. They are physically dead (the death of their bodies) and they are in Heaven.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, And I saw the SOULS of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God...

Again, these are the souls of those who had been martyred. They are physically dead, and they are in Heaven.


The verses that speak of the dead as being asleep, are speaking of the body. Not the soul. If you can't believe me, then do some research. Google something like ''the fallacy of soul-sleep'' or something similar. Go talk to a pastor. Or just believe what you want and the facts be damned.
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,389,248 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Because I believe this is a sound biblical doctrine, I would like to share some scriptural evidence to support it . . . I think it is a very important doctrine to be clear on.

I want to step by step break this down for everyone. One’s opinion should only reflect the truth read straight from the bible.


John 5: 28-30 (NIV)

Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out – those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgement is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Here Jesus tells those who are listening how the dead will come forth from their graves

This obviously is a huge corner stone to support the “soul sleep” theory and who will argue with Jesus?

Daniel 12:2

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Here is another scripture that backs up the soul sleep concept. Not only does it support John 5: 28-30 it says the same thing but words it in such a way people better understand.

John 3:13

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven- the Son of Man.

With this scripture we realize the soul sleep theory is more then just a theory it is fact. It is unfortunate this scripture does run into conflict with another passage. I would like to go ahead and look at it together.

Luke 23:43

Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Now for some this may seem like an ah hah moment but let me reassure you it is not. Jesus was quite obviously a unique individual which is a gross under statement but he was Jesus. He could do anything and if he swelled up with compassion for this criminal on the cross then yes he can take him up once Jesus died then the criminal. To me this is an exception to the rule because let’s face it, Jesus can decide to take you with him if he so desires. This brings me to another “challenge verse”.

Luke 16: 19-31

This rather large piece of scripture that stands on the “challenge side” is surprisingly simple enough to understand. At the time Jesus is teaching those around him and in Luke 16 you find the parable of the shred manager. Unfortunately those who do not support the “soul sleep” concept will find neither does this scripture. WHY!? you scream! Because Jesus is telling a story and not fact(s).
My assessment . . . you die – and then the next thing you are aware of is that you wake up to be judged. It isn’t as though you are conscious during ’soul sleep’.
There WAS a time when those who went to the grave were thought to be kept in a holding place which is what Hades refers to and is called sleeping. But there is no such thing in the New Covenant because Jesus opened the way to the Holy of Holies or God's presence. In the Old Covenant, no one was able to enter God's presence after death. (disclaimer... I don't think any of this is what actually happens but that is what I gather from the bible as to what the people then believed)

But there is no consciousness which is why I believe it is referred to as sleep because it happens "in the twinkling of an eye" to you.

I tend to shy away from using the phrase "soul sleep" though simply because it implies that "soul" is a separate part of the human being when Genesis 2 clearly states that Body + Spirit = Soul or Life.

Anyway, just thought I would throw my two cents in there.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,316,367 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Revelation 6:9-11 And when He broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the SOULS of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained , 10) and they cried out with a loud voice,saying,''how long, O Lord, holy and true, wilt Thou refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?''

These are the conscious souls of believers in Heaven who had been martyred. They are physically dead (the death of their bodies) and they are in Heaven.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, And I saw the SOULS of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God...

Again, these are the souls of those who had been martyred. They are physically dead, and they are in Heaven.


The verses that speak of the dead as being asleep, are speaking of the body. Not the soul. If you can't believe me, then do some research. Google something like ''the fallacy of soul-sleep'' or something similar. Go talk to a pastor. Or just believe what you want and the facts be damned.
This Revelation account was a vision of John when he saw the FUTURE. These are saints in heaven AFTER the Great Tribulation when they are gathered by the angels, which is the 1st Resurrection and Rapture of the elect.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:32 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
This Revelation account was a vision of John when he saw the FUTURE. These are saints in heaven AFTER the Great Tribulation when they are gathered by the angels, which is the 1st Resurrection and Rapture of the elect.
No. Now you are certainly free to believe what you want, but look at this.

Rev. 6:9 is taking place during the tribulation at the time of the Fifth Seal. The passage is careful to make the distinction that it is the souls of those who had been slain that John saw. They are being told in verse 11 that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, should be completed also.

Realize what is being said in verse 11. There are still more tribulational saints alive on the earth who are going to be killed, who are going to be martyred, and will join those who are already in heaven and waiting for God to avenge them.

The resurrection of these Tribulational saints will take place at the end of the Tribulation. But that is still future from the time of the event that is being portrayed here in this passage. These are the souls of those who are still waiting to be resurrected.

And in Revelation 20:4 these are the same souls mentioned in Rev. 6:9-11 with even more souls now present. Now it is closer to the end of the Tribulation. In fact, it is at the end of the Tribulation. John describes at the end of verse 4, that he sees their resurrection take place. ''and they came to life.'' John is stating here, that in his vision, he is observing the actual resurrection of the bodies of these martyred saints.

I cannot make it any clearer than that. You either comprehend what is being said here or you don't. These are the conscious souls of martyred saints in Heaven awaiting the resurrection of their bodies at the end of the Tribulation.
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:49 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
There WAS a time when those who went to the grave were thought to be kept in a holding place which is what Hades refers to and is called sleeping. But there is no such thing in the New Covenant because Jesus opened the way to the Holy of Holies or God's presence. In the Old Covenant, no one was able to enter God's presence after death. (disclaimer... I don't think any of this is what actually happens but that is what I gather from the bible as to what the people then believed)

But there is no consciousness which is why I believe it is referred to as sleep because it happens "in the twinkling of an eye" to you.

I tend to shy away from using the phrase "soul sleep" though simply because it implies that "soul" is a separate part of the human being when Genesis 2 clearly states that Body + Spirit = Soul or Life.

Anyway, just thought I would throw my two cents in there.
Yes, I totally agree with what you said, it was late, the holding place is the grave . . . thanks for pointing that out . . and you are also correct, I call it soul sleep for the purpose of discussion . . . it is a man made term, I also believe the body plus spirit equals life. Thanks K!!!!
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:50 AM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,405 posts, read 2,109,556 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilvan View Post
This Revelation account was a vision of John when he saw the FUTURE. These are saints in heaven AFTER the Great Tribulation when they are gathered by the angels, which is the 1st Resurrection and Rapture of the elect.
Wilvan, you are 100 percent correct . . what John was seeing is the "saints" those in Christ . . . who went to reign with Jesus for the 1,000 years.
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