U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-22-2009, 06:48 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,603,493 times
Reputation: 4470

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibcwife View Post
Proverbs 6:12-19
12 A worthless person, a wicked man, Walks with a perverse mouth; 13 He winks with his eyes, He shuffles his feet, He points with his fingers; 14 Perversity is in his heart, He devises evil continually, He sows discord. 15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly; Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy. 16 These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
The good news of the gospel is that God loved the world in that condition

Romans 5

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
We can see that - even in scripture - there is a slant toward the writer's point of view; the wisdom of Proverbs gives us vises, black or white, right and wrong = law. In Romans, we see the grace of God. It's been said that the attributes of God appear as a diamond - depending on how you turn it (or see Him) you will see something different about it/Him.

Which makes these discussions turned arguments exhaustive, divisive, and frustrating; we're right, but we're also wrong. We are as those writers, giving our view of a Subject too big to describe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-22-2009, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,139,479 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
I don't understand it when people say "love is the fulfillment of the commandments". Well..... I understand it. I just don't understand their interperatation of it. For one to say "If you follow all of the laws, and are obedient to the laws without love then it means nothing" is a contradiction in itself. Because they go together. If you do not love God or your neighbor, then the possibility of obedience to the commandments is impossible!! And to say the two commandments that Jesus spoke of has nothing to do with the OT laws (10 commandments) to me is just not true. I do not think that Verna was trying to say that only a few selected commandments were behind the meaning of the two. I believe she meant.....Correct me if I'm wrong Verna....... that God made two tablets of stone!!! In kind of the same way that Jesus, made the two commandments!! God does not make mistakes nor are there coincidences in his word!!!

And the first great commandment:

Matthew 22:

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

And the first great tablet of stone:


ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'


FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'


The second great commandment:

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The second great tablet:

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

AMAZING!!! They actually fit together. Who would have thought??

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I believe that I could literally hang the 10 commandments (two stones) under these two commandments!! Who has heard the saying "Practice what you preach"??? Why would Jesus practice the obedience of the 10 commandments??? And then preach that we need not follow them??? It doesn't make sense!! I'm with Verna on this one ladies and gentleman!!


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
Did not the Pharisees think they were following all of Gods laws and did not Christ condemn them because their hearts werent' right? When one's motive to follow commandments is WRONG then it means nothing in the eyes of God....it is filthy rags.

This is what I said:

Following commandments/rules doesn't mean anything to God if our HEART is not right. Following rules is exactly what Jesus freed us from...they couldn't do it and neither can we. Like I said earlier...I can follow all the rules to the letter and obey them perfectly but if I have NO LOVE IN MY HEART FOR OTHERS....that is just filthy rags to God and means nothing. We are commanded to LOVE others the way God LOVES us...if we are not doing this, then we are NOT following His commandments. We are not walking in "THE WAY" Jesus showed us to.


It is also a false assumption to say that you can't follow Gods commandments without love because there are plenty of "Pharisees" out there who think they are doing just that...following God commandments but they have no pure love in the heart for their fellow man...I've seen evidence of this on this forum so it's impossible for you to make that claim.


Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus clearly told us that the 10 commandments can be summed up into these two laws. And what is main topic of these two laws? Pure and unblemished LOVE!

Romans 13:10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1 Cor 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.


2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,

5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,

6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;

7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.

I can do all the good deeds in the world, give to the poor, help the homeless, help drug & alcohol addicted people, work at an abortion clinc, work prison ministry, go to church everytime the doors open (but in my heart I'm thinking they should go get a job, In my heart I'm thinking they are disgusting and vile people, In my heart I'm thinking they should quit having a pity party for themselves and get off the drugs and booze, In my heart I'm thinking....), you get the picture. There are plenty of people I've encountered in my lifetime that are exactly like this...can you argue with that? I think not.

If we as "Christians" are not walking in and living out pure and unblemished love for God and our fellow man (no matter who they are) we are NOT FOLLOWING THE COMMANDMENTS. If you fail in one part of the law, you fail in it all. Does anyone think they qualify as a commandement follower yet?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,828,249 times
Reputation: 701
Default Obedience.

Could you imagine if your love for your children was based upon their obidience? Mine mess up all the time. I still love them the same. It seems like the more you FORCE a child to conform to the way YOU want them to be, the more they rebel against it. I know in the end I am not going to toss my children into a pit of fire just because they didn't do everything that I wanted them to do. How selfish that would be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,139,479 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Could you imagine if your love for your children was based upon their obidience? Mine mess up all the time. I still love them the same. It seems like the more you FORCE a child to conform to the way YOU want them to be, the more they rebel against it. I know in the end I am not going to toss my children into a pit of fire just because they didn't do everything that I wanted them to do. How selfish that would be.
Praise the Lord....someone with a shred of common sense!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 7,858,868 times
Reputation: 3309
Quote:
Under the New Covenant we are not only bound to obey the Law (the ten commandments), we are required to obey ALL the commands that God has set forth in His Word.
Have you READ Leviticus? Where do you sleep when you are unclean? Where do you sit?
Where do you go to make your animal sacrifices? I'm pretty sure my pastor won't come over to my house to inspect any mildew I might find...who do you call for that? Where do you go to be purified and make sacrifices? When you have a skin condition do you see a doctor or your pastor? Do you really think that adulterers and homosexuals should be put to death? Oh, and rebellious teens....they are to be put to death as well. Where is your stoning pit and your burning stake? Will I need a city permit to build the pit and the alter I will need for sacrificing?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,139,479 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Have you READ Leviticus? Where do you sleep when you are unclean? Where do you sit?
Where do you go to make your animal sacrifices? I'm pretty sure my pastor won't come over to my house to inspect any mildew I might find...who do you call for that? Where do you go to be purified and make sacrifices? When you have a skin condition do you see a doctor or your pastor? Do you really think that adulterers and homosexuals should be put to death? Oh, and rebellious teens....they are to be put to death as well. Where is your stoning pit and your burning stake? Will I need a city permit to build the pit and the alter I will need for sacrificing?
Oh....I'm quite sure the "Commandment" keepers will claim those commandments don't apply.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 08:02 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,410 posts, read 20,134,460 times
Reputation: 2119
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
Have you READ Leviticus? Where do you sleep when you are unclean? Where do you sit?
Where do you go to make your animal sacrifices? I'm pretty sure my pastor won't come over to my house to inspect any mildew I might find...who do you call for that? Where do you go to be purified and make sacrifices? When you have a skin condition do you see a doctor or your pastor? Do you really think that adulterers and homosexuals should be put to death? Oh, and rebellious teens....they are to be put to death as well. Where is your stoning pit and your burning stake? Will I need a city permit to build the pit and the alter I will need for sacrificing?
Where is it ? It's all in their hearts

For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

The Old Covenant Law was completely mis interpreted by the Pharisees.

The proof is when they wanted to stone the woman caught in adultery (yes they had a scripture for it to ), Jesus said he that is without sin let him cast the first stone.

So who living under the Law could carry out the consequences to those failing the Law ? Exactly

Today we have the modern equivalant of it, but with the added bonus of what they also perceive as "New Covenant Law" thrown into the mix , which basically is God loves you but if you do not believe in him or obey He is going to punish you (not to correct you) and literally destroy you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 10:15 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,603,493 times
Reputation: 4470
Quote:
What enters your mind when you think about God is the most important thing about you.

- A.W. Tozer
Boy, was he right...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,261,593 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
I don't understand it when people say "love is the fulfillment of the commandments". Well..... I understand it. I just don't understand their interperatation of it. For one to say "If you follow all of the laws, and are obedient to the laws without love then it means nothing" is a contradiction in itself. Because they go together. If you do not love God or your neighbor, then the possibility of obedience to the commandments is impossible!! And to say the two commandments that Jesus spoke of has nothing to do with the OT laws (10 commandments) to me is just not true. I do not think that Verna was trying to say that only a few selected commandments were behind the meaning of the two. I believe she meant.....Correct me if I'm wrong Verna....... that God made two tablets of stone!!! In kind of the same way that Jesus, made the two commandments!! God does not make mistakes nor are there coincidences in his word!!!

And the first great commandment:

Matthew 22:

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

And the first great tablet of stone:


ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'


FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'


The second great commandment:

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The second great tablet:

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

AMAZING!!! They actually fit together. Who would have thought??

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I believe that I could literally hang the 10 commandments (two stones) under these two commandments!! Who has heard the saying "Practice what you preach"??? Why would Jesus practice the obedience of the 10 commandments??? And then preach that we need not follow them??? It doesn't make sense!! I'm with Verna on this one ladies and gentleman!!


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
Dear ALMOST2L8...I "ALMOST" fell off my seat when I read this post!!! You are EXACTLY correct! Thank God for your insight!

You know, in answer to the blue bolded part of your post...

...I have to say this...

...I have been judged so wrongly by these people, in that I have no love in my heart for others. NOTHING could be farther from the truth! Constantly, I read these same people posting over and over again that I follow the ten commandments for my salvation, and I have clarified over and over again...time and time again, that I do not follow the ten commandments thinking that this is going to save me...I'M ALREADY SAVED...BEFORE I began keeping the ten commandments, (which includes the Sabbath, which IS one of the commandments)...BY THE GRACE OF GOD, THROUGH FAITH I'M SAVED!...

... and hear this...I LOVE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU!!! No matter how you have attacked me and said some of the most hurtful things to me...I still love you...and nothing you can do or say will EVER change that!

I KEEP THE TEN COMMANDMENTS BECAUSE I LOVE GOD...AND THIS IS MY WAY OF SHOWING HIM THAT I DO!

Your angry words and hostile attitudes towards me...and your accusations of my heart not filled with the love of God...are all your assumptions!...how can any of you say that I don't do what I do BECAUSE of the love that IS in my heart? Talk about judging someone! You ALL have, over and over again been guilty of the very thing you have so wrongly accused me of... being hateful...judgemental...self-righteous...a biggot...accusatory...and everything else negative I can think of. You all are WRONG about me! I am FULL of love...OVERFLOWING with it...for you!...especially for you! PLEASE!! Stop judging me! Please. You...none of you...know what is in my heart, obviously...your assumptions prove what you have no clue of!...your words prove what IS in your own heart...the very things you accuse my heart of being full of.

Thank you ALMOST2L8...God Bless you...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-22-2009, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 862,009 times
Reputation: 134
This should clear up any ignorance concerning the book of the law!!!


YouTube - WHAT LAW WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS????? PT.1


YouTube - WHAT LAW WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS????? PT.2

If this doesn't explain it, then you were not paying attention!!!


GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top