U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-14-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,135,943 times
Reputation: 8868

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by caucazhin View Post
Calvinists have a few very big problems
They really cant be sure if they're saved and therefore cant be sure if God really loves them
And if they're not really sure if they're loved & saved how can they offer salvation to anyone else or tell someone else about Gods love & salvation for them ??
It becomes the gospel of MAYBE & BUT
MAYBE God chose you before the foundations of the world
MAYBE God loves you
MAYBE Jesus even died for your sins
BUT we cant be sure and we have no way of verifying it
One thing is for sure you Calvinists have absolutely no right whatsoever to tell anyone on the face of the earth that God loves them and that Jesus died for an individuals sins because you have no way of verifying this unless He died for everybody.....

And the funny thing is thats what the whole "GOOD NEWS" is based upon.
That He died for everyones transgressions and forgiveness is available to everyone both Jew & Gentile...

MAYBE is not "GOOD NEWS"
And another thing...If jesus told us to love and pray for our enemies then that really means to love everyone under the harshest of circumstances.
He not only tells us to but commands us to...
And if He's commanding us to love everybody then that means He loves everybody.
NOT some of us.....ALL of us

"While we were yet sinners Christ died for us"

LIMITED ATONEMENT is the devils tool to bring in doubts,maybe's and buts

And since God is Love and the source of all true love... how could He tell us to love and forgive everybody if He hadnt....
That would be impossible...
Just about everything you say here about Calvinism is wrong. I don't know if it's out of ignorance of the subject or that the ideas are just offensive to you regardless of the clear teachings of the bible.
Your first point is so far off the mark that it would be laughable if it were not just sad. The 5th point of Calvinism the P is the perserverence of the
saints. Not only does this doctorine assure the believer of salvation in the hear and now it gives him comfort to know with a certainty that ,"He that has begun a good work in us is faithful to bring it to completion." In other words the Believer is "assured of his salvation".
Your statements of "Maybe or But" Are totally off the mark. There is NO maybe about it. God chose me, loves me and Jesus died for me.
Has it never struck you as a strange thing that reformed churched have so many missionaries and outreach programs? That they have always been a major force for evangilizing the world. If what you say had any truth to it at all then that would not be the case.
God chooses and God saves and God loves who he will and it's up to me as a Christian to obey his commands. Preach the gospel to all the world.
Limited atonement is the TRUTH of the gospel. If it offends you that God has choosen a people unto himself to show His special favour too, then why does that offend. Most that find it offensive do so out of human pride. They somehow think that God has to exhibit a character that they can reconcile how they think God should be from their human understanding. IT'S NOT FAIR, they cry that God would not give everyone an equal chance to believe and make their own choice to believe. Do you know how far that is from eveything that is clearly taught in the bible? Do you not know that the unsaved are DEAD in their sin and do not have any ability to regenerate themselves? Do you realize that Christ's sacrifice was a perfect sacrifice and it will save ALL of his people. Christ did not die in vain and if the atonement was for all His death would be in vain in Billions of cases.
Do you believe that the will of fallen sinful man can trump that of all almighty God? If you believe that God loves sinners and Christ died for those who will not believe then the will of those people is more powerful than God's. God wants them to come to saving faith but they won't. What nonsence. This is a picture of a weak ineffectual God that can do nothing without the consent of a man.
"While we were yet sinners Christ died for us". US his people, the ones that God has given him. His adopted people. Do adopted people get chosen or do they chose.
Check out Chose and chosen in your concordance also elected and election. Read the entire book of Ephesians and pray for some understanding and then maybe you will have a little better understanding of the "Doctorines of Grace".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-14-2009, 07:06 PM
 
303 posts, read 485,834 times
Reputation: 58
The gospel according to Billy the Goat
BUUUUUUT MAYYYYYYYBE Jesus died 4 U...
That is if UUUUUUU put on my John Calvin Klein underwear to cover your iniquity
God chose meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee & not uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
NOW THATS PRIDE................................

Last edited by caucazhin; 11-14-2009 at 07:14 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 07:27 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,154 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by caucazhin View Post
the gospel according to billy the goat
buuuuuut mayyyyyyybe jesus died 4 u...
that is if uuuuuuu put on my john calvin klein underwear to cover your iniquity
god chose meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee & not uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
now thats pride................................
s******
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,397,072 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I would never hate you or think any such thing about you because of your beliefs, tigetmax . . . it is the doctrine that I consider evil . . . not the followers . . . they are just misguided.It IS simple . . . God made us . . . so whatever we are He intended and predestined that is the way we should be . . . unless you think God made a mistake.
The God I believe in is big enough to allow creatures to have limited freedom yet still maintain complete sovereignty.

I don't have to put God in a box in order to make him acceptable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 07:51 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Of course your analogy fails.

Answer me this:

How is it just for God to condemn a man eternally for doing exactly what God had ordained and predestined the man to do? How is that justice in any sense of the word?
Well, you keep believeing that. it's ok
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 07:55 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If God can do just what the hell He likes, how can we argue against it , but on the other hand if He's a just God the claim is laughable unjust and a mockery of what justice is.
We can't argue against it....just as Paul said in Romans...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,154 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
We can't argue against it....just as Paul said in Romans...
Paul is not saying God can do what the hell He likes , you just think he is saying that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,135,943 times
Reputation: 8868
Quote:
Originally Posted by caucazhin View Post
The gospel according to Billy the Goat
BUUUUUUT MAYYYYYYYBE Jesus died 4 U...
That is if UUUUUUU put on my John Calvin Klein underwear to cover your iniquity
God chose meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee & not uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
NOW THATS PRIDE................................
God chose me and Jusus died for me. As for your other comment, I have no idea who God has chosen or not. It's not up to me at all to make any judgement regarding that. As far as I know maybe God chose and Jesus died for Charlie Manson. That is why I as a Christian am commanded to preach the gospel to everyone or anyone regredless of what they have said or done in this world. Would it make you less insulting if I said that I am a follower of the doctorines taught by Jesus and Paul. I had a good friend, a pastor who taught at a Mennonite church. They are Arminian in their theolgy and mt friend is a rock solid Reformer. Instead of calling himself a Calvinist he called himself a follower of the teachings of St. Augustine. Everyone in the whole denomination begged this man to come and preach at their church because his preaching had so much power and wisdom. His teachings always had rock solid backing from the bible so who could complain? I do not believe anything that is not rock solid. If a scriptue is obscure or unclear I'm sure not going to use it to refute what is clear and consistant through the entire bible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 09:20 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,403,926 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Amen to that my fellow Calvinist.....but, go a little deeper.
Richard, do you believe God predestines a man to commit sin?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 09:28 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,403,926 times
Reputation: 682
Calvinists, does God desire to save everyone?

So far I have Tigetmax down as a YES. Any other Calvinists want to weigh in?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top