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Old 11-14-2009, 09:57 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,404,833 times
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Calvinists, what does John Calvin mean when he says "GOD HAS PREDESTINATED SOME TO SALVATION, AND OTHERS TO DESTRUCTION"?

Furthermore, Calvin asserts "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation"



Do Calvinists believe God predestines some men to eternal hell? Calvin's own words seem plain to me.

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:08 PM
 
303 posts, read 485,900 times
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God chose me and Jusus died for me. As for your other comment, I have no idea who God has chosen or not. It's not up to me at all to make any judgement regarding that.

What a crock....
You surely dont have the right to tell ANYONE Christ died for them or loves them...
Its that simple..You have absolutely no right at all because you can only speculate with a big
MAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ! ! ! ! !

Billy Goat 3:16
"For God so loved the ELECT that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever IS CHOSEN in him shall not perish but have eternal life. NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...................... .......

JOHN 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,138,347 times
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Forget Calvin, What does the bible say about it? The bible says that we all derserve to go to hell. Every single human being born except Jesus who was able to keep the commands of God perfectly deserve God's judgement. The fact that God in His mercy choses to save some does not mean that he is consigning the rest to hell. They do that themselves. Tell me this. Wht would a man who rejects God and his plan for redemption want to spend eternity with God anyway.
You know that there are things about God and His plans for His people that we can never fully explain or understand. God takes no blame for those who go to hell. The judgement is upon themselves for their sin. The punishment for sin is death and the bible is very clear on this. On the other hand God takes all the credit for those that are saved. A man can not save himself from Gods judgement and "God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that who soever believes in him shall not die but have eternal life. God does not want to see a destruction of his entire creation so he made a provision to save some from this destruction.
I think my analogy of death row fits well here. When the president pardons one convict there is he responsible to save the rest? Has he ordained them to death. No, they did that themselves. I do not understand what is difficult about this.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,138,347 times
Reputation: 8868
Quote:
Originally Posted by caucazhin View Post
God chose me and Jusus died for me. As for your other comment, I have no idea who God has chosen or not. It's not up to me at all to make any judgement regarding that.

What a crock....
You surely dont have the right to tell ANYONE Christ died for them or loves them...
Its that simple..You have absolutely no right at all because you can only speculate with a big
MAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ! ! ! ! !

Billy Goat 3:16
"For God so loved the ELECT that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever IS CHOSEN in him shall not perish but have eternal life. NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT...................... .......

JOHN 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Unless God quickens the heart of a sinner he can in no way bring life to that dead heart. If a man could raise himself up from the grave then he may be able to bring his dead spititual state into life by his will but that is not the case is it?
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:28 PM
 
303 posts, read 485,900 times
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Calvin learned his hogwash from Augustine whos predestination ideas were rejected by the church.......
Calvin basically had Servatus burned at the stake and the lovely Calvinist Puritans use to burn people at the stake for whatever they thought was heracy including a few very peaceful Quakers.

I dont recall Jesus, Paul or any of the apostles ever telling anyone to pick up stones unless they were without sin
" Ye shall know them by their fruits "
" Ye shall know they are my disciples by the love they have one for another "
Not by their selfrighteous theology

Calvin was a selfrighteous hypocrit........

I worship Jesus not Calvin, Augustine, Luther, Billy Graham, The Pope or anyone else...........
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:12 AM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,397,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Calvinists, does God desire to save everyone?

So far I have Tigetmax down as a YES. Any other Calvinists want to weigh in?
To clarify, I stated that it is God's desire that none should parish.
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:17 AM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,397,245 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Calvinists, what does John Calvin mean when he says "GOD HAS PREDESTINATED SOME TO SALVATION, AND OTHERS TO DESTRUCTION"?

Furthermore, Calvin asserts "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation"



Do Calvinists believe God predestines some men to eternal hell? Calvin's own words seem plain to me.

Inquiring minds want to know.
Have you read John Calvin (the portions militating against your intimation of "predestination to hell)?

Do you know what reformed theology is?

Do you know what the reformation was?

Is this a restatement of your OP? If so, why?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:55 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,404,833 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Have you read John Calvin (the portions militating against your intimation of "predestination to hell)?

Do you know what reformed theology is?

Do you know what the reformation was?

Is this a restatement of your OP? If so, why?

Inquiring minds want to know.
You continue to assert John Calvin doesn't preach a predestination to hell, yet the above statements of his say he does. Does Calvin contradict these statements elsewhere?

Please point me to these portions of John Calvin that "militate against my intimation of predestination to hell".
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Old 11-15-2009, 06:56 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,404,833 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
To clarify, I stated that it is God's desire that none should parish.
OK you believe God desires none perish.

Do you believe God desires to save all men?

(Personally I think these are the same thing)
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Old 11-15-2009, 07:56 AM
 
Location: US
26,250 posts, read 13,920,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Perhaps the reason Calvinism baffles you is because you have read so little of it. At least that seems to be the situation judging from your post. I'm not a Calivinist, but the way I understand it, The main tenet of Calvinism is called "Selective Salvation" or "Salvation for the Few" and basically says that, despite how good you life your life or how hard you try, not eveyone is gonna go to heaven, pal. God already has chosen a select few, by his Grace, and you're either on the list or you ain't.
Boy, this one just ticks some people off to no end. Me, I kinda find it amusing. It's like Heaven is a great big celestial Trendy L.A. Night Club, where people dress in all their best and weirdest finery and stand outside in line waiting for some neanderthal bouncer to give them the nod and let them slide under the ropes to come inside and pay exorbitant fees for watered down drinks and listen to brain-numbing music.
See, The bouncer is the human version of the Guardian Angel. Yeah! And the watered down drinks are the false salve of promised salvation. And the music is the cacaphony of fundies on Earth arguing their various points on Religion: that bloodstained hoax!
Your anoalogy sounds an awful lot like the Virgins and their lamps parable.
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