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Old 11-15-2009, 02:19 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
not all those decended from Abraham are Isreal.....
Of course not, Abraham is the father of many nations, but that does not change the point i was making. God chose to have mercy on some of Israel and he chose to harden many ... Never the less even those whom he hardened who are of Israel will be saved. So there is nothing which says God will not save all those whom he hardens whether Hebrew or Gentile in the end.

Also you seem to miss the point that Israel was cast off so that god could save those who are not Israel ... So that he might have mercy on ALL ...
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,170 posts, read 19,964,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Of course not Abraham is the father of many nations, but that does not change the point i was making. God chose to have mercy on some of Israel and he chose to harden many ... Never the less even those whom he hardened who are of Israel will be saved. So there is nothing which says God will not save all those whom he hardens whether Hebrew or Gentile in the end.

Also you seem to miss the point that Israel was cast off so that god could save those who are not Israel ... So that he might have mercy on ALL ...
Absolutely
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It is called systematic theology...reason and logic...simple.
Its called you making up things or believing things that other people make up in order to reconcile the contradictions which are evident in your beliefs as far as scripture is concerned. Some might go as far as to say it is in fact adding to the gospel. I fyou would abandon your faith in the traditions of men which have used erroneous translations to engineer their false doctrines of the eternal torture of the vast majority of humanity for ever and Study the earliest church fathers and the teachings of the eastern church before the 6th century you might be realize there is no need for these added ideologies to reconcile what otherwise is apparently contradictory. And maybe you would be able to take the word of God at face value in so much as the translations allow when brought into the proper exegesis and honest hermeneutics ...
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,397,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
yes.
So, being interpreted:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any (of the converted) should perish, but that all (of the converted) should come to repentance."

Then you believe it is possible for the converted to become reprobate?
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:18 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
So, being interpreted:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any (of the converted) should perish, but that all (of the converted) should come to repentance."

Then you believe it is possible for the converted to become reprobate?

You know its too bad you have to add words to the bible to make your doctrine stand. I wonder why Peter wasn't so plain in his statement. He could easily have added those words in himself, but he didn't. And next to everything Paul wrote, we see that not one place in the bible does it say that god will not save those who do not believe, or that he is willing to let anyone not be saved. The truth is, they knew then what some of us understand now, which is that in the end all will confess Christ is their lord and will bow to him and worship him and sing his name in joy because they have learned righteousness from his judgments. But this is only after the resurrection of the unbelievers and after they have been saved by fire ...
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Old 11-15-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,397,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
You know its too bad...
My post wasn't addressed to you - hence, your obvious confusion.
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:09 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
My post wasn't addressed to you - hence, your obvious confusion.
Excuse me ...
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:14 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Of course not, Abraham is the father of many nations, but that does not change the point i was making. God chose to have mercy on some of Israel and he chose to harden many ... Never the less even those whom he hardened who are of Israel will be saved. So there is nothing which says God will not save all those whom he hardens whether Hebrew or Gentile in the end.

Also you seem to miss the point that Israel was cast off so that god could save those who are not Israel ... So that he might have mercy on ALL ...
Maybe all means not just Isreal....but others
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:23 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Its called you making up things or believing things that other people make up in order to reconcile the contradictions which are evident in your beliefs as far as scripture is concerned. Some might go as far as to say it is in fact adding to the gospel. I fyou would abandon your faith in the traditions of men which have used erroneous translations to engineer their false doctrines of the eternal torture of the vast majority of humanity for ever and Study the earliest church fathers and the teachings of the eastern church before the 6th century you might be realize there is no need for these added ideologies to reconcile what otherwise is apparently contradictory. And maybe you would be able to take the word of God at face value in so much as the translations allow when brought into the proper exegesis and honest hermeneutics ...
I love the way you throw those big words around...I do take the Word of God at face value....it is you who don't....by your saying that God will eventually have mercy on all..why would i want to be righteous in this world?...all i have to do is do what i want, have fun and if i don't fit the bill, eventually i will be saved....hmmm...What are we being saved from anyway? What is Salvation? What is Condemnation?......You go ahead and believe in your Heresy....i'll believe in the Truth...thank You.
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:28 PM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Its called you making up things or believing things that other people make up in order to reconcile the contradictions which are evident in your beliefs as far as scripture is concerned. Some might go as far as to say it is in fact adding to the gospel. I fyou would abandon your faith in the traditions of men which have used erroneous translations to engineer their false doctrines of the eternal torture of the vast majority of humanity for ever and Study the earliest church fathers and the teachings of the eastern church before the 6th century you might be realize there is no need for these added ideologies to reconcile what otherwise is apparently contradictory. And maybe you would be able to take the word of God at face value in so much as the translations allow when brought into the proper exegesis and honest hermeneutics ...
Obviously your skill in exegesis and hermeneutics isn't all that great....it says in 2 Peter that the scriptures are not open to individual interpretation....
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