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Old 11-15-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: US
26,268 posts, read 13,935,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
So, being interpreted:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any (of the converted) should perish, but that all (of the converted) should come to repentance."

Then you believe it is possible for the converted to become reprobate?
And the converted will come to repentance....It is called perserverence of the saints....
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:32 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
You know its too bad you have to add words to the bible to make your doctrine stand. I wonder why Peter wasn't so plain in his statement. He could easily have added those words in himself, but he didn't. And next to everything Paul wrote, we see that not one place in the bible does it say that god will not save those who do not believe, or that he is willing to let anyone not be saved. The truth is, they knew then what some of us understand now, which is that in the end all will confess Christ is their lord and will bow to him and worship him and sing his name in joy because they have learned righteousness from his judgments. But this is only after the resurrection of the unbelievers and after they have been saved by fire ...
then who are the goats being told to depart for He never knew them...and then death and Hell were cast into the lake of fire...
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Old 11-15-2009, 05:59 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,397,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
And the converted will come to repentance....It is called perserverence of the saints....
According to you, Peter states that God wills all (of the converted) to come to repentance (conversion).

Do you see anything nonsensical about this? Why would a converted person need to be converted?

Also, you failed to answer my question: Do you believe it's possible for the converted to become reprobate?
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Old 11-15-2009, 07:05 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,407,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Richard, do you believe God predestines a man to commit sin
He ordains it....
Is there a difference between God ordaining something and God predestining something?
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Old 11-15-2009, 07:56 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Maybe all means not just Isreal....but others

All in that verse means all Israel and all gentile nations ...
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:03 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,407,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I love the way you throw those big words around...I do take the Word of God at face value....it is you who don't....by your saying that God will eventually have mercy on all..why would i want to be righteous in this world?...all i have to do is do what i want, have fun and if i don't fit the bill, eventually i will be saved....hmmm...What are we being saved from anyway? What is Salvation? What is Condemnation?......You go ahead and believe in your Heresy....i'll believe in the Truth...thank You.
We are saved from sin and death.

You show your true nature if you only want to be righteous because you want to avoid an eternal hell. I'm not saying this is how you are, but if one is only serving the Lord out of fear of hell, then perhaps their motives are not sincere.

You ask "why would I want to be righteous" .... do you think you can become righteous on your own? (I don't think so).

Do you really think it is better to be unrighteous if you can "get away" with it? Did the prodigal son "get away" with having fun and doing whatever he wanted? No, he ended up eating with the pigs. God will not be mocked, there are always consequences. Everyone will receive what is due according to their works. We are not saved from consequences. Sometimes it takes a consequence like eating with the pigs before you realize it is better to follow Christ.

When the prodigal son returned to his Father, he was welcomed with open arms. Yet there was that older brother who didn't appreciate his Father's love for the wayward son... sound familiar?
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:20 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I love the way you throw those big words around...I do take the Word of God at face value....it is you who don't....by your saying that God will eventually have mercy on all..why would i want to be righteous in this world?...all i have to do is do what i want, have fun and if i don't fit the bill, eventually i will be saved....hmmm...What are we being saved from anyway? What is Salvation? What is Condemnation?......You go ahead and believe in your Heresy....i'll believe in the Truth...thank You.

Excuse my erudition, i only use the words that are appropriate to communicate the Ideas that i believe to be pertaining to the truth. You could use a dictionary, or just google a word if you have trouble understanding.

The bible says that God will have mercy on all, that is why i say it. I quoted scripture and you deny what the scripture says, or say i am taking it out of context when in fact it is you who cannot accept what the bible says because you think it contradicts certain verses that are simply mistranslated or that you misunderstand due to your orthodox fundamentalist indoctrination.

Your words show me that you do not have a true understanding of the value of knowing God and Christ whom he sent. If you think that being saved regardless of your belief in this life is reason to live in sin then you must not truly appreciate the life we have now in Christ, and the peace and joy and love that his spirit brings us which are its fruits. A true believer believes because God is good, not because he or she is afraid of being tortured by a god who claims to be good but in reality is a tyrant and a sadist.

Rom 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?


The true believer loves God because God loved us first, not because he believed God hated him and desired to win his affection or escape his wrath...

1Jo 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

You act as if you think that living a life in bondage to sin is preferable to living a life in service to God ... Don't you know that living in bondage to sin causes destruction? And i am not referring to judgment, but to the sorrows it causes people in this world. God has given us his commandments not just to lord over us, but because he knows that is the best life for us, and for the whole creation.

So if God told you personally that indeed UR was true, would you all the sudden stop being a christian and start fornicating and stealing and killing and whatever else you think is preferable to loving your neighbor as your self and loving your enemies?

This one thing I want everyone to realize, is that the fiery judgments of God are no walk in the park ... And the loss suffered by those saved by fire will be great indeed, and i would adjure one and all to escape the fire by all means, but that does not change the purpose of the fiery judgments of God which are not to simply cause harm to those so judged, but they are to teach them righteousness as the scriptures tell us. Or do you think God takes pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, so much that he should extend it into everlasting? And what purpose does eternal torment serve in the end after all but the vain threats of dishonorable and contemptuous men?

You should really double check your heart and spirit friend, because to me it seems hard as stone. Do you desire your enemies to suffer for suffering sake alone? You should desire that by all means they be saved if God is willing, that is to say if you truly love them as Christ has commanded you should.

Amen and Selah ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-15-2009 at 08:30 PM..
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Old 11-15-2009, 08:29 PM
 
37,517 posts, read 25,250,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The bible says that God will have mercy on all, that is why i say it. I quoted scripture and you deny what the scripture says, or say i am taking it out of context when in fact it is you who cannot accept what the bible says because you think it contradicts certain verses that are simply mistranslated or that you misunderstand due to your orthodox fundamentalist indoctrination.

Your words show me that you do not have a true understanding of the value of knowing God and Christ whom he sent. If you think that being saved regardless of your belief in this life is reason to live in sin then you must not truly appreciate the life we have now in Christ, and the peace and joy and love that his spirit brings us which are its fruits. A true believer believes because God is good, not because he or she is afraid of being tortured by a god who claims to be good but in reality is a tyrant and a sadist.
Amen . . . Ironmaw It is a mystery how these obviously contradictory views about the nature of God can possibly reside in the same mind. The power of indoctrination is indisputable.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:15 PM
 
Location: US
26,268 posts, read 13,935,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
We are saved from sin and death.

You show your true nature if you only want to be righteous because you want to avoid an eternal hell. I'm not saying this is how you are, but if one is only serving the Lord out of fear of hell, then perhaps their motives are not sincere.

You ask "why would I want to be righteous" .... do you think you can become righteous on your own? (I don't think so).

Do you really think it is better to be unrighteous if you can "get away" with it? Did the prodigal son "get away" with having fun and doing whatever he wanted? No, he ended up eating with the pigs. God will not be mocked, there are always consequences. Everyone will receive what is due according to their works. We are not saved from consequences. Sometimes it takes a consequence like eating with the pigs before you realize it is better to follow Christ.

When the prodigal son returned to his Father, he was welcomed with open arms. Yet there was that older brother who didn't appreciate his Father's love for the wayward son... sound familiar?
You've convinced me...i can deal with the consequences until such a time i get reconciled in the end....no problem...Just wonder what "fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" means.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:31 PM
 
Location: US
26,268 posts, read 13,935,357 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
We are saved from sin and death.

You show your true nature if you only want to be righteous because you want to avoid an eternal hell. I'm not saying this is how you are, but if one is only serving the Lord out of fear of hell, then perhaps their motives are not sincere.

You ask "why would I want to be righteous" .... do you think you can become righteous on your own? (I don't think so).

Do you really think it is better to be unrighteous if you can "get away" with it? Did the prodigal son "get away" with having fun and doing whatever he wanted? No, he ended up eating with the pigs. God will not be mocked, there are always consequences. Everyone will receive what is due according to their works. We are not saved from consequences. Sometimes it takes a consequence like eating with the pigs before you realize it is better to follow Christ.

When the prodigal son returned to his Father, he was welcomed with open arms. Yet there was that older brother who didn't appreciate his Father's love for the wayward son... sound familiar?
[CENTER]"They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,that the purpose of God according toelectionmight stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written,Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." Rom 9:8-16(KJV) [/CENTER]
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