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Old 11-15-2009, 09:34 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Excuse my erudition, i only use the words that are appropriate to communicate the Ideas that i believe to be pertaining to the truth. You could use a dictionary, or just google a word if you have trouble understanding.

The bible says that God will have mercy on all, that is why i say it. I quoted scripture and you deny what the scripture says, or say i am taking it out of context when in fact it is you who cannot accept what the bible says because you think it contradicts certain verses that are simply mistranslated or that you misunderstand due to your orthodox fundamentalist indoctrination.

Your words show me that you do not have a true understanding of the value of knowing God and Christ whom he sent. If you think that being saved regardless of your belief in this life is reason to live in sin then you must not truly appreciate the life we have now in Christ, and the peace and joy and love that his spirit brings us which are its fruits. A true believer believes because God is good, not because he or she is afraid of being tortured by a god who claims to be good but in reality is a tyrant and a sadist.

Rom 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?


The true believer loves God because God loved us first, not because he believed God hated him and desired to win his affection or escape his wrath...

1Jo 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

You act as if you think that living a life in bondage to sin is preferable to living a life in service to God ... Don't you know that living in bondage to sin causes destruction? And i am not referring to judgment, but to the sorrows it causes people in this world. God has given us his commandments not just to lord over us, but because he knows that is the best life for us, and for the whole creation.

So if God told you personally that indeed UR was true, would you all the sudden stop being a christian and start fornicating and stealing and killing and whatever else you think is preferable to loving your neighbor as your self and loving your enemies?

This one thing I want everyone to realize, is that the fiery judgments of God are no walk in the park ... And the loss suffered by those saved by fire will be great indeed, and i would adjure one and all to escape the fire by all means, but that does not change the purpose of the fiery judgments of God which are not to simply cause harm to those so judged, but they are to teach them righteousness as the scriptures tell us. Or do you think God takes pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, so much that he should extend it into everlasting? And what purpose does eternal torment serve in the end after all but the vain threats of dishonorable and contemptuous men?

You should really double check your heart and spirit friend, because to me it seems hard as stone. Do you desire your enemies to suffer for suffering sake alone? You should desire that by all means they be saved if God is willing, that is to say if you truly love them as Christ has commanded you should.

Amen and Selah ...
Not at all...i just find people that use big words like that have an arrogant tendency to think they are more educated, thereby, better than others....i don't use them anymore because most people never understood fully what i was saying.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:39 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,196,917 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You've convinced me...i can deal with the consequences until such a time i get reconciled in the end....no problem...Just wonder what "fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" means.
If i may ... Though you did not post this reponse to me, i would like to give my two cents.

Take this verse in contrast with ...

1Jo 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

So If fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, yet one who fears is not perfect in love, then how can these things be reconciled in our understanding. I believe that fear of the lord is referring to a sense of reverence for the power of God, more than it is thinking him willing to cause you to suffer for ever. And if that reverence is only the beginning of wisdom, then what is the fullness of wisdom? I believe that(the fullness of wisdom) is to be in perfected love, and in having the knowledge of Gods purpose in his wrath and fiery judgments. Once we understand the meaning of Gods fiery judgments as being for the refinement and sanctification and cleaning and purification of those who are judged so that the carnal mind might be destroyed in order that the spiritual mind might be renewed and quickened, then we are able to know the full wisdom of God in his righteous judgments and are thereby able to love our enemies and pray for them having faith Gods will be done in their lives unto their own salvation whether it be by their being quickened now in this life or renewed by fire in the judgments in the great day of the lord.

So it is not in vanity that i love my enemies and those that do not believe who might be enemies of my faith, nor is it vanity that i should pray for them and bless them in the name of Christ. I can rest assured in my prayers that Gods perfect love will in one way or another lead to their being reconciled unto God. Else why should i love one who does not believe? Because when they die if they were to suffer for evermore then it would be cause for me to grieve and mourn them and my love would be a vexation. And if i pray for their slavation and they die before confessing Christ as their savior then my prayers were in vain if they are after death forevermore without hope.

God bless ...
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:40 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Excuse my erudition, i only use the words that are appropriate to communicate the Ideas that i believe to be pertaining to the truth. You could use a dictionary, or just google a word if you have trouble understanding.

The bible says that God will have mercy on all, that is why i say it. I quoted scripture and you deny what the scripture says, or say i am taking it out of context when in fact it is you who cannot accept what the bible says because you think it contradicts certain verses that are simply mistranslated or that you misunderstand due to your orthodox fundamentalist indoctrination.

Your words show me that you do not have a true understanding of the value of knowing God and Christ whom he sent. If you think that being saved regardless of your belief in this life is reason to live in sin then you must not truly appreciate the life we have now in Christ, and the peace and joy and love that his spirit brings us which are its fruits. A true believer believes because God is good, not because he or she is afraid of being tortured by a god who claims to be good but in reality is a tyrant and a sadist.

Rom 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?


The true believer loves God because God loved us first, not because he believed God hated him and desired to win his affection or escape his wrath...

1Jo 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

You act as if you think that living a life in bondage to sin is preferable to living a life in service to God ... Don't you know that living in bondage to sin causes destruction? And i am not referring to judgment, but to the sorrows it causes people in this world. God has given us his commandments not just to lord over us, but because he knows that is the best life for us, and for the whole creation.

So if God told you personally that indeed UR was true, would you all the sudden stop being a christian and start fornicating and stealing and killing and whatever else you think is preferable to loving your neighbor as your self and loving your enemies?

This one thing I want everyone to realize, is that the fiery judgments of God are no walk in the park ... And the loss suffered by those saved by fire will be great indeed, and i would adjure one and all to escape the fire by all means, but that does not change the purpose of the fiery judgments of God which are not to simply cause harm to those so judged, but they are to teach them righteousness as the scriptures tell us. Or do you think God takes pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, so much that he should extend it into everlasting? And what purpose does eternal torment serve in the end after all but the vain threats of dishonorable and contemptuous men?

You should really double check your heart and spirit friend, because to me it seems hard as stone. Do you desire your enemies to suffer for suffering sake alone? You should desire that by all means they be saved if God is willing, that is to say if you truly love them as Christ has commanded you should.

Amen and Selah ...
You really know nothing about me......I see finally that you believe in Purgatory....Didn't know you were RC.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:41 PM
 
Location: US
26,244 posts, read 13,909,589 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Amen . . . Ironmaw It is a mystery how these obviously contradictory views about the nature of God can possibly reside in the same mind. The power of indoctrination is indisputable.
I was not indoctrinated.....i have read the Bible thru many times....If UR gives you a warm fuzzy..then go ahead and believe it.
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:52 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,196,917 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
You really know nothing about me......I see finally that you believe in Purgatory....Didn't know you were RC.
Your right i do not know anything about you, all i can do is draw conclusions from your own words. I am only trying to provide you an outside perspective to your own proclaimed beliefs. If i have a pimple and someone points it out without trying to shame me, then i take it not so much as an insult as an acknowledgment of my condition. We need to look at ourselves in the mirror if we are to know our flaws. Sometime it is necessary that others should help us to see, what we might otherwise choose to ignore, in order to better ourselves.

I am not RC, and i don't believe in purgatory. I believe that the purpose of Gods judgment is to reconcile those who are judged and bring them into harmony with him in the end. I do not believe that God, who is love above all other things, takes pleasure or is in any way glorified by the suffering of anyone(except for Christ who is his own express image and suffered for the whole world).

Eze 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

And so i see that the claim of eternal damnation is vanity and pointless. If it were not for many specific scriptures which speak of the eventual salvation of all creation, i would probably have concluded annihilation/conditional mortality to be the truth. However, by the grace of God i have come to understand his true purpose which is to have a complete victory over sin and death and every work of the devil within his creation. And if death i to have no victory, and if sin is to be for ever destroyed, then no one can remain dead for ever, and sin must eventually cease to be. Neither annihilation nor eternal damnation can claim that these things will be done. Only the eventual complete restoration of all creation into harmony with God can do that.

God bless ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-15-2009 at 10:02 PM..
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Old 11-15-2009, 09:59 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,196,917 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I was not indoctrinated.....i have read the Bible thru many times....If UR gives you a warm fuzzy..then go ahead and believe it.

If you think we believe in Ur only because it makes us feel good(witch of Course it should, as it is the good news) then i wonder why you believe in eternal damnation? How does that make you feel?
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,133,598 times
Reputation: 8868
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Where does it say in the scriptures God chooses whom He wishes for Salvation ? .
I will eat my hat if you can find a scripture that clearly states this.
Eph 1-4 Even as He CHOSE us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love he Predistined us for ADOPTION as sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of His will.
I want a report on how that hat tasted.

James 2-5, Has God not CHOSEN those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kindom.

Take another bite out of that hat please.

1 Peter 2-9 But you are a CHOSEN race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who CALLED you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Are you just about finnished with that hat yet?

John 10- 26- 29. But you do not believe because you are not part of My flock, My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has GIVEN them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hand.

There are many other verses in the bible that teach this same eternal truth about Man's relationship to God. All the words that clearly teach this are there for anyone to see. Tell me does a child chose his adopted Father? Never does that happen. We are adopted by God.as it says.
We are chosen by God as His people. This is a constant theme all throughout the entire bible. God's chosen people. Who are they? Well they are the people God Chooses. How could anyone even with the slightest understanding of the English say any different?
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,133,598 times
Reputation: 8868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Again, another of your posts i see logic and reason in, instead of overspiritualization.....i am proud of you...thank you. And to add to it, sorry, if i may, David was a man after God's own heart, but, we see all the Sins he committed..yet, he was a man after God's own heart....imagine that!, Doesn't sound fair to me when you read God destroying all the others because of their similar Sins.
I believe that one of the major lessons God is trying to teach in this story is. What was it that made God consider David a "Man after His own Heart"? Another similar one for me is. What was it about Abraham that he was considered a friend of God and God declared him righteous?
The answer is of course, that both David and Abraham had Faith in the promises of God. They believed and that was counted to them as righteousness in the sight of The Lord.Now the fact that this faith was given to them by God is another subject altogether.
Have you ever thought about what it was that saved God's people before the incarnation of Jesus? Was it their works? We know that's out because they were sinners. So it was their faith that saved them. But their faith in what? You know I always liked that refrain that we said in church. God, who is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever.
It's the blood of Jesus that saves, today yesterday tomorrow and forever. The saints of the OT were saved by their faith in the promise that God would would provide a perfect sacrifice for them. What Jesus did for His people is eternal. It reaches back to the beginning and it reaches forward to eternity. The perfect plan for His own. PTL.
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Old 11-15-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,232,976 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Where does it say in the scriptures God chooses whom He wishes for Salvation ? .
I will eat my hat if you can find a scripture that clearly states this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow
Eph 1-4 Even as He CHOSE us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love he Predistined us for ADOPTION as sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of His will.
I want a report on how that hat tasted.

James 2-5, Has God not CHOSEN those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kindom.

Take another bite out of that hat please.

1 Peter 2-9 But you are a CHOSEN race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who CALLED you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Are you just about finnished with that hat yet?

John 10- 26- 29. But you do not believe because you are not part of My flock, My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has GIVEN them to me is greater than all and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hand.

There are many other verses in the bible that teach this same eternal truth about Man's relationship to God. All the words that clearly teach this are there for anyone to see. Tell me does a child chose his adopted Father? Never does that happen. We are adopted by God.as it says.
We are chosen by God as His people. This is a constant theme all throughout the entire bible. God's chosen people. Who are they? Well they are the people God Chooses. How could anyone even with the slightest understanding of the English say any different?
... ..<how's this one...?...or maybe you would prefer ...<this one...?.......................salt...?
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Old 11-16-2009, 05:06 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,138 posts, read 19,958,111 times
Reputation: 2104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Where does it say in the scriptures God chooses whom He wishes for Salvation ? .
I will eat my hat if you can find a scripture that clearly states this.



... ..<how's this one...?...or maybe you would prefer ...<this one...?.......................salt...?
Not one single scripture you have quoted says "God chooses who he WISHES for salvation".

My hat survives another day !!!!!!!!!!!

Here's just a couple of scriptures that says that He desires and chose all for salvation.

John 3 : 16 For God so loved the world

John 12 : 32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

1 Tim 4 : 9.10 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

It is utterely amazing how many people on this forum are laboring and striving to repel and resist the trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (1 Tim 4 9,10) , and you need to be ashamed of yourself for doing so.Infact i will go as far to say you are enemies of the gospel for doing so .

Basically what you are saying is "though God wants all to be saved i cannot accept it". Why do you always resist the Holy Ghost ? ( the reasons why is obvious)

Last edited by pcamps; 11-16-2009 at 05:48 AM..
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