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Old 11-21-2009, 06:02 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Not one single scripture you have quoted says "God chooses who he WISHES for salvation".

My hat survives another day !!!!!!!!!!!

Here's just a couple of scriptures that says that He desires and chose all for salvation.

John 3 : 16 For God so loved the world

John 12 : 32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

1 Tim 4 : 9.10 This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance 10(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.

It is utterely amazing how many people on this forum are laboring and striving to repel and resist the trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance (1 Tim 4 9,10) , and you need to be ashamed of yourself for doing so.Infact i will go as far to say you are enemies of the gospel for doing so .

Basically what you are saying is "though God wants all to be saved i cannot accept it". Why do you always resist the Holy Ghost ? ( the reasons why is obvious)
People also like to throw out those verses because they say, "all" in them....But, in light of the word Elect, it might be speaking of all the Elect...just as He says He takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, it is something that must be done.....Do you take pleasure in punishing your child? If you are right in the head, no you don't, but, it is a neccessity in order to correct your childs behavior....and before you point out that God will correct ALL our behavior, this was only an example and we are not talking about destruction of the child, just correction as opposed to the word destruction in scripture.......
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Old 11-21-2009, 06:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
There is no denying that God chooses a people for himself - the elect; chosen few. But the point pcamps is making is what are they chosen for? The choice is not about who goes to heaven and who goes to burn in a fabled hell. They are chosen to be the firstfruits in God's great harvest of the earth. Yet after the firstfruits are collected there is still more work to be done...
The Chosen are not the firstfruits, Christ is.....

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Fundy, reread my posts, you misunderstood. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, there are two different fears being talked about here. Fear has meaning of "reverence" and also a meaning of "being terrified".

One cannot truly love something you are terrified of. Like others have pointed out, Perfect love casts out fear. But you can love something you have respect and reverence for. Are you in awe and reverence of God? Or are you terrified of God?

Read it in the amplified if you want the precise meaning:

Prov 9:10 The reverent and worshipful fear of the Lord is the beginning (the chief and choice part) of Wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight and understanding.

We are also told that all will eventually fear Him, specifically all will show Him reverence and worship. It doesn't mean all will be terrified of Him. It means all will be in awe of Him and worship Him and even love Him.

Rev 15:4 Who shall not reverence and glorify Your name, O Lord [giving You honor and praise in worship]? For You only are holy. All the nations shall come and pay homage and adoration to You, for Your just judgments (Your righteous sentences and deeds) have been made known and displayed.

The really interesting part is when you look at these two verses together, you must realize that eventually all will gain wisdom. All will come to a knowledge of the truth, just like 1 Tim 2:4 says.
When i was a child i always feared abeating from my mother if i was caught doing something wrong....however, i still loved her and clung to her....
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Actaully no...it is not biblical-We are either believers or unbelievers-there is no third group. For the unbeliever, the fear of God is the fear of the judgment of God and eternal death, which is eternal separation from God and for the believer, Luke 12:5; Hebrews 10:31 the fear of God is something different. The believer's fear is reverence of God.
If someone does not believe, what do they have to fear? I'd say "fear of the Lord" refers to physical death, not spiritual, let's face it, we all enjoy life so we do not want to end up like Ananias and Saphira....
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
That is not what I was saying.

I was talking about fear right now - the third group (atheists) don't fear God (in any sense) because obviously they don't believe there is a God.

Its not exactly a mapping to non-believer/believer anyway. There are many believers who don't understand God's love and are actually terrified that they may end up in hell, simply because they might do something wrong. They don't have a full understanding of God's perfect love yet.
I'd have to agree with you there only because i was once that type....
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
No we can't......An atheist is an unbeliever. Atheists know God exist but they choose to suppress that belief or knowledge and as "humble" as some of then can seem to be they are rebels and haters of God, to even believe in the existence of God would force them to acknowledge sin and judgment. They love the idea that they are accountable only to themselves.
You mean Agnostic......Atheism does not believe in God
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
And this is where the fable of ET came from (The heart of man) . A man can only share what's in his heart and if he is terrified through fear of consequence because he has not understood God's perfect love , this is how He will relate is false concept of God to us .

Not understanding God in love chastises us for our good and not for our ruin.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
And this is where the fable of ET came from (The heart of man) . A man can only share what's in his heart and if he is terrified through fear of consequence because he has not understood God's perfect love , this is how He will relate is false concept of God to us .

Not understanding God in love chastises us for our good and not for our ruin.
Mat 5:22 but I--I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire. = Young's literal translation, 1898
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Just because you are not chosen does not mean you are not saved .

The Old testament priests (The tribe of Levi) were chosen does that mean the rest of Israel was not God's people.

The fact of the matter is God so loved the world and desires all to be saved and accomplishes is desires . John 3 : 16 .1 Tim 4 :10,Isaiah 55 :11.

You know what Richard quit with the i'm special thing , the only way you will become special in God's eyes is when you see everyone is special in God's eyes.
Man, you sound immature in that last sentence...
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I have read Romans and never seen it .

Point me to a scripture that saves He chose a certain few for Salvation , you cannot do it because it's not there , the best you could possibly do is find scriptures that say some are chosen .

When it says for example "We are a chosen people a Royal priesthood" does not say there are a few saved for salvation , it's saying that is what we are .
Young's literal translation, 1898
Rom 9:1 Truth I say in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing testimony with me in the Holy Spirit,
Rom 9:2 that I have great grief and unceasing pain in my heart--
Rom 9:3 for I was wishing, I myself, to be anathema from the Christ--for my brethren, my kindred, according to the flesh,
Rom 9:4 who are Israelites, whose is the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the lawgiving, and the service, and the promises,
Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.
Rom 9:6 And it is not possible that the word of God hath failed; for not all who are of Israel are these Israel;
Rom 9:7 nor because they are seed of Abraham are all children, but--`in Isaac shall a seed be called to thee;'
Rom 9:8 that is, the children of the flesh--these are not children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for seed;
Rom 9:9 for the word of promise is this; `According to this time I will come, and there shall be to Sarah a son.'
Rom 9:10 And not only so , but also Rebecca, having conceived by one--Isaac our father--
Rom 9:11 (for they being not yet born, neither having done anything good or evil, that the purpose of God, according to choice, might remain; not of works, but of Him who is calling,) it was said to her--
Rom 9:12 `The greater shall serve the less;'
Rom 9:13 according as it hath been written, `Jacob I did love, and Esau I did hate.'
Rom 9:14 What, then, shall we say? unrighteousness is with God? let it not be!
Rom 9:15 for to Moses He saith, `I will do kindness to whom I do kindness, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion;'
Rom 9:16 so, then--not of him who is willing, nor of him who is running, but of God who is doing kindness:
Rom 9:17 for the Writing saith to Pharaoh--`For this very thing I did raise thee up, that I might shew in thee My power, and that My name might be declared in all the land;'
Rom 9:18 so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say, then, to me, `Why yet doth He find fault? for His counsel who hath resisted?'
Rom 9:20 nay, but, O man, who art thou that art answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form it , Why me didst thou make thus?
Rom 9:21 hath not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour?
Rom 9:22 And if God, willing to shew the wrath and to make known His power, did endure, in much long suffering, vessels of wrath fitted for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of kindness, that He before prepared for glory, whom also He did call--us--
Rom 9:24 not only out of Jews, but also out of nations,
Rom 9:25 as also in Hosea He saith, `I will call what is not My people--My people; and her not beloved--Beloved,
Rom 9:26 and it shall be--in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God.'
Rom 9:27 And Isaiah doth cry concerning Israel, `If the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea, the remnant shall be saved;
Rom 9:28 for a matter He is finishing, and is cutting short in righteousness, because a matter cut short will the Lord do upon the land.
Rom 9:29 and according as Isaiah saith before, `Except the Lord of Sabaoth did leave to us a seed, as Sodom we had become, and as Gomorrah we had been made like.'
Rom 9:30 What, then, shall we say? that nations who are not pursuing righteousness did attain to righteousness, and righteousness that is of faith,
Rom 9:31 and Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, at a law of righteousness did not arrive;
Rom 9:32 wherefore? because--not by faith, but as by works of law; for they did stumble at the stone of stumbling,
Rom 9:33 according as it hath been written, `Lo, I place in Sion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence; and every one who is believing thereon shall not be ashamed.'

King James Version

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Contemporary English Version:

Rom 9:1 I am a follower of Christ, and the Holy Spirit is a witness to my conscience. So I tell the truth and I am not lying when I say
Rom 9:2 my heart is broken and I am in great sorrow.
Rom 9:3 I would gladly be placed under God's curse and be separated from Christ for the good of my own people.
Rom 9:4 They are the descendants of Israel, and they are also God's chosen people. God showed them his glory. He made agreements with them and gave them his Law. The temple is theirs and so are the promises that God made to them.
Rom 9:5 They have those famous ancestors, who were also the ancestors of Jesus Christ. I pray that God, who rules over all, will be praised forever! Amen.
Rom 9:6 It cannot be said that God broke his promise. After all, not all of the people of Israel are the true people of God.
Rom 9:7 In fact, when God made the promise to Abraham, he meant only Abraham's descendants by his son Isaac. God was talking only about Isaac when he promised
Rom 9:8 (SEE 9:7)
Rom 9:9 Sarah, "At this time next year I will return, and you will already have a son."
Rom 9:10 Don't forget what happened to the twin sons of Isaac and Rebekah.
Rom 9:11 Even before they were born or had done anything good or bad, the Lord told Rebekah that her older son would serve the younger one. The Lord said this to show that he makes his own choices and that it wasn't because of anything either of them had done.
Rom 9:12 (SEE 9:11)
Rom 9:13 That's why the Scriptures say that the Lord liked Jacob more than Esau.
Rom 9:14 Are we saying that God is unfair? Certainly not!
Rom 9:15 The Lord told Moses that he has pity and mercy on anyone he wants to.
Rom 9:16 Everything then depends on God's mercy and not on what people want or do.
Rom 9:17 In the Scriptures the Lord says to Pharaoh of Egypt, "I let you become king, so that I could show you my power and be praised by all people on earth."
Rom 9:18 Everything depends on what God decides to do, and he can either have pity on people or make them stubborn.
Rom 9:19 Someone may ask, "How can God blame us, if he makes us behave in the way he wants us to?"
Rom 9:20 But, my friend, I ask, "Who do you think you are to question God? Does the clay have the right to ask the potter why he shaped it the way he did?
Rom 9:21 Doesn't a potter have the right to make a fancy bowl and a plain bowl out of the same lump of clay?"
Rom 9:22 God wanted to show his anger and reveal his power against everyone who deserved to be destroyed. But instead, he patiently put up with them.
Rom 9:23 He did this by showing how glorious he is when he has pity on the people he has chosen to share in his glory.
Rom 9:24 Whether Jews or Gentiles, we are those chosen ones,
Rom 9:25 just as the Lord says in the book of Hosea, "Although they are not my people, I will make them my people. I will treat with love those nations that have never been loved.
Rom 9:26 "Once they were told, 'You are not my people.' But in that very place they will be called children of the living God."
Rom 9:27 And this is what the prophet Isaiah said about the people of Israel, "The people of Israel are as many as the grains of sand along the beach. But only a few who are left will be saved.
Rom 9:28 The Lord will be quick and sure to do on earth what he has warned he will do."
Rom 9:29 Isaiah also said, "If the Lord All-Powerful had not spared some of our descendants, we would have been destroyed like the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah."
Rom 9:30 What does all of this mean? It means that the Gentiles were not trying to be acceptable to God, but they found that he would accept them if they had faith.
Rom 9:31 It also means that the people of Israel were not acceptable to God. And why not? It was because they were trying to be acceptable by obeying the Law instead of by having faith in God. The people of Israel fell over the stone that makes people stumble,
Rom 9:32 (SEE 9:31)
Rom 9:33 just as God says in the Scriptures, "Look! I am placing in Zion a stone to make people stumble and fall. But those who have faith in that one will never be disappointed."

King James 1611:

Rom 9:1 I say the trueth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing mee witnesse in the holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I haue great heauinesse, and continuall sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that my selfe were accursed from Christ, for my brethren my kinsemen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites: to whom perteineth the adoption, and the glory, and the couenants, and the giuing of the Law, and the seruice of God, and the promises:
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is ouer all, God blessed for euer, Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall haue a sonne.
Rom 9:10 And not onely this, but when Rebecca also had conceiued by one, euen by our father Isaac,
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet borne, neither hauing done any good or euil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of workes, but of him that calleth.)
Rom 9:12 It was said vnto her, The elder shall serue the yonger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Iacob haue I loued, but Esau haue I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there vnrighteousnes with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For hee saith to Moses, I will haue mercy on whom I wil haue mercie, and I will haue compassion on whom I will haue compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture saith vnto Pharaoh, Euen for this same purpose haue I raised thee vp, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my Name might bee declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath hee mercie on whom hee will haue mercy, and whom he will, he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then vnto mee; Why doeth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power ouer the clay, of the same lumpe, to make one vessell vnto honour, and another vnto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, & to make his power knowen, indured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make knowen the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which hee had afore prepared vnto glorie?
Rom 9:24 Euen vs whom hee hath called, not of the Iewes onely, but also of the Gentiles.
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people: and her, beloued, which was not beloued.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to passe, that in the place where it was saide vnto them, Ye are not my people, there shall they bee called the children of the liuing God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shalbe saued.
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the worke, and cut it short in righteousnesse: because a short worke will the Lord make vpon the earth.
Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabboth had left vs a seed, we had bene as Sodoma, and bene made like vnto Gomorrha.
Rom 9:30 What shall wee say then? That the Gentiles which followed not after righteousnesse, haue attained to righteousnesse, euen the righteousnesse which is of faith:
Rom 9:31 But Israel which followed after the Law of righteousnesse, hath not attained to the Law of righteousnes.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? because they sought it, not by faith, but as it were by the works of the Law: for they stumbled at that stumbling stone,
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Beholde, I lay in Sion a stumbling stone, and rocke of offence: and whosoeuer beleeueth on him, shall not be ashamed.

Bishop's 1568:

Rom 9:1 I say ye trueth in Christ, I lye not, my conscience also bearyng me witnesse by the holy ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I haue great heauinesse, & continuall sorowe in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I haue wisshed my selfe to be cursed from Christe, for my brethren, my kynsmen as pertaynyng to ye fleshe,
Rom 9:4 Which are the Israelites: To whom pertayneth the adoption, and the glory, & the couenauntes, and the lawe that was geuen, and the seruice of God, and the promises.
Rom 9:5 Of whom are the fathers, of whom as concernyng the fleshe, Christe [came,] which is God, in all thynges to be praysed for euer. Amen.
Rom 9:6 And it can not be, that the worde of God shoulde take none effect. For they are not all Israelites, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither are they all chyldren that are the seede of Abraham: But in Isaac shall thy seede be called.
Rom 9:8 That is to say: They which are the chyldren of the fleshe, are not the chyldren of God: But they which be the childre of promise, are counted the seede.
Rom 9:9 For this is a worde of promise: About this tyme wyll I come, and Sara shall haue a sonne.
Rom 9:10 Not only this, but also Rebecca was with chylde by one [euen] by our father Isaac.
Rom 9:11 For yer the [chyldren] were borne, when they had neither done good neither bad, (that the purpose of God by election might stande: not by the reason of workes, but by the caller)
Rom 9:12 It was sayde vnto her: The elder shall serue the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written: Iacob haue I loued, but Esau haue I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there any vnrighteousnes with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he sayth to Moyses: I wyll shewe mercy to whom I shewe mercy: And wyll haue compassion, on whom I haue compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of the wyller, nor of the runner: but of the mercy of God.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture sayth vnto Pharao: Euen for this same purpose haue I stirred thee vp, to shewe my power in thee, & that my name myght be declared throughout all the worlde.
Rom 9:18 So hath he mercy on whom he wyll, and whom he wyll, he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wylt say then vnto me: Why then blameth he [vs] yet? For who hath ben able to resist his wyll?
Rom 9:20 But O man, what art thou which disputest with God? Shall the worke say to the workeman, why hast thou made me on this fashion?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power ouer the clay, euen of the same lumpe to make one vessel vnto honour, and another vnto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 If then, God wyllyng to shewe his wrath, and to make his power knowe, suffred with long patience, the vessels of wrath, ordayned to destruction,
Rom 9:23 To declare the riches of his glory, on the vessels of mercy, which he had prepared vnto glory:
Rom 9:24 Whom also he called, not of ye Iewes only, but also of the Gentiles.
Rom 9:25 As he sayth also in Osee: I wyll call them my people, which were not my people: and her beloued, which was not beloued.
Rom 9:26 And it shall come to passe, that in the place where it was sayde vnto them: Ye are not my people, there shall they be called ye chyldren of the lyuyng God.
Rom 9:27 And Esaias cryeth concerning Israel: Though the number of the children of Israel, be as the sande of the sea, yet [but] a remnaunt shalbe saued.
Rom 9:28 For he finisheth the worde, and maketh it short in ryghteousnesse: For a short worde wyll the Lorde make on earth.
Rom 9:29 And as Esaias sayde before: Except the Lorde of Sabboth had lefte vs seede, we had ben made as Sodoma, and had ben lykened to Gomorrha.
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? that the gentiles which folowed not ryghteousnes, haue obtayned righteousnesse: euen the ryghteousnesse which cometh of fayth.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which folowed the lawe of ryghteousnesse, hath not attayned to the lawe of ryghteousnesse.
Rom 9:32 Wherfore? Because [they sought it] not by fayth: but [as it were] by the workes of the lawe. For they haue stumbled at the stumblyng stone,
Rom 9:33 As it is written: Beholde, I put in Sion a stumblyng stone, and a rocke of offence: And whosoeuer beleueth on hym, shall not be confounded.

Literal Translation Of The Holy Bible:

Rom 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I do not lie, my conscience bearing witness with me in the Holy Spirit,
Rom 9:2 that my grief is great, and a never ceasing pain is in my heart,
Rom 9:3 for I myself was wishing to be a curse from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to flesh,
Rom 9:4 who are Israelites, whose are the adoption and the glory, and the covenants, and the Lawgiving, and the service, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to flesh, He being God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not, however, that God's Word has failed. For not all those of Israel are Israel,
Rom 9:7 nor because they are Abraham's seed are all children, but "In Isaac a Seed shall be called to you." Gen. 21:12
Rom 9:8 That is: Not the children of flesh are children of God, but the children of the promise are counted for a seed.
Rom 9:9 For the Word of promise is this, "According to this time I will come, and a son will be to Sarah." Gen. 18:10
Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also Rebekah conceiving of one, our father Isaac,
Rom 9:11 for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of the One calling,
Rom 9:12 it was said to her, "The greater shall serve the lesser;" Gen. 25:23
Rom 9:13 even as it has been written, "I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau." Mal. 1:2, 3
Rom 9:14 What then shall we say? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be!
Rom 9:15 For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will pity whomever I will pity." Ex. 33:19
Rom 9:16 So, then, it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of the One showing mercy, of God.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very thing I raised you up, so that I might display My power in you, and so that My name might be publicized in all the earth." Ex. 9:16
Rom 9:18 So, then, to whom He desires, He shows mercy. And to whom He desires, He hardens.
Rom 9:19 You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
Rom 9:20 Yes, rather, O man, who are you answering against God? Shall the thing formed say to the One forming it, Why did You make me like this? Isa. 29:16
Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have authority over the clay, out of the one lump to make one vessel to honor, and one to dishonor? Jer. 18:6
Rom 9:22 But if God, desiring to demonstrate His wrath, and to make His power known, endured in much long-suffering vessels of wrath having been fitted out for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy which He before prepared for glory,
Rom 9:24 whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also out of nations.
Rom 9:25 As also He says in Hosea, I will call those Not My people, My people! And those not beloved, Beloved! Hosea 2:23
Rom 9:26 "And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there they will be called, "Sons of the Living God." LXX-Hos. 2:1; MT-Hos. 2:23
Rom 9:27 But Isaiah cries on behalf of Israel, "If the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, the remnant will be saved."
Rom 9:28 For He is bringing the matter to an end, and having been cut short "in righteousness," "because the Lord" "will do a thing cut short" "on the earth." Isa. 10:22, 23
Rom 9:29 And as Isaiah has said before, "Except the Lord of hosts left a seed to us, we would have become as Sodom, and we would have become as Gomorrah." Isa. 1:9
Rom 9:30 What then shall we say? That the nations not following after righteousness have taken on righteousness, but a righteousness of faith;
Rom 9:31 but Israel following after a Law of righteousness did not arrive at a Law of righteousness?
Rom 9:32 Why? Because it was not of faith, but as of works of Law. For they stumbled at the Stone-of-stumbling,
Rom 9:33 as it has been written, "Behold, I place in" "Zion a Stone-of-stumbling," "and a Rock-of-offense," "and everyone believing on Him will not be shamed." LXX and MT-Isa. 28:16; MT-Isa. 8:14

Comparison: Romans 9:18

(ASV) So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.
(BBE) So then, at his pleasure he has mercy on a man, and at his pleasure he makes the heart hard.
(Bishops) So hath he mercy on whom he wyll, and whom he wyll, he hardeneth.
(CEV) Everything depends on what God decides to do, and he can either have pity on people or make them stubborn.
(DRB) Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will. And whom he will, he hardeneth.
(Geneva) Therefore he hath mercie on whome he will, and whom he will, he hardeneth.
(GLB) So erbarmt er sich nun, welches er will, und verstockt, welchen er will.
(GNB) So then, God has mercy on anyone he wishes, and he makes stubborn anyone he wishes.
(GNT) ἄρα οὖν ὃν θέλει ἐλεεῖ, ὃν δὲ θέλει σκληρύνει.
(GNT-V) αρα ουν ον θελει ελεει ον δε θελει σκληρυνει
(GNT-WH+) αραG686 PRT ουνG3767 CONJ ονG3739 R-ASM θελειG2309 V-PAI-3S ελεειG1653 V-PAI-3S ονG3739 R-ASM δεG1161 CONJ θελειG2309 V-PAI-3S σκληρυνειG4645 V-PAI-3S
(GW) Therefore, if God wants to be kind to anyone, he will be. If he wants to make someone stubborn, he will.
(KJV) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
(KJV+) ThereforeG686 G3767 hath he mercyG1653 on whomG3739 he willG2309 have mercy, andG1161 whomG3739 he willG2309 he hardeneth.G4645
(KJV-1611) Therefore hath hee mercie on whom hee will haue mercy, and whom he will, he hardeneth.
(KJVA) Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
(LITV) So, then, to whom He desires, He shows mercy. And to whom He desires, He hardens.
(MKJV) Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens.
(RV) So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he hardeneth.
(Vulgate) ergo cuius vult miseretur et quem vult indurat
(YLT) so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden.




Oh, and here is a comparison of the Tim 2:10 i've seen flying around here:
2Ti 2:10
(ASV) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(BBE) But I undergo all things for the saints, so that they may have salvation in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(Bishops) Therfore I suffer all thynges for the electes sakes, that they myght also obtaine the saluation, which is in Christ Iesus, with eternall glorie.
(CEV) and so I am willing to put up with anything. Then God's special people will be saved. They will be given eternal glory because they belong to Christ Jesus.
(DRB) Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus, with heavenly glory.
(Geneva) Therefore I suffer all things, for the elects sake, that they might also obtaine the saluation which is in Christ Iesus, with eternall glorie.
(GLB) Darum erdulde ich alles um der Auserwählten willen, auf daß auch sie die Seligkeit erlangen in Christo Jesu mit ewiger Herrlichkeit.
(GNB) and so I endure everything for the sake of God's chosen people, in order that they too may obtain the salvation that comes through Christ Jesus and brings eternal glory.
(GNT) διὰ τοῦτο πάντα ὑπομένω διὰ τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς, ἵνα καὶ αὐτοὶ σωτηρίας τύχωσι τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ ᾿Ιησοῦ μετὰ δόξης αἰωνίου.
(GNT-V) δια τουτο παντα υπομενω δια τους εκλεκτους ινα και αυτοι σωτηριας τυχωσιν της εν χριστω ιησου μετα δοξης αιωνιου
(GNT-WH+) διαG1223 PREP τουτοG3778 D-ASN πανταG3956 A-APN υπομενωG5278 V-PAI-1S διαG1223 PREP τουςG3588 T-APM εκλεκτουςG1588 A-APM ιναG2443 CONJ καιG2532 CONJ αυτοιG846 P-NPM σωτηριαςG4991 N-GSF τυχωσινG5177 V-2AAS-3P τηςG3588 T-GSF ενG1722 PREP χριστωG5547 N-DSM ιησουG2424 N-DSM μεταG3326 PREP δοξηςG1391 N-GSF αιωνιουG166 A-GSF
(GW) For that reason, I endure everything for the sake of those who have been chosen so that they, too, may receive salvation from Christ Jesus with glory that lasts forever.
(KJV) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(KJV+) ThereforeG1223 G5124 I endureG5278 all thingsG3956 for the elect's sakes,G1223 G3588 G1588 thatG2443 theyG846 may alsoG2532 obtainG5177 the salvationG4991 whichG3588 is inG1722 ChristG5547 JesusG2424 withG3326 eternalG166 glory.G1391
(KJV-1611) Therefore I indure all things for the elects sakes, that they may also obtaine the saluation which is in Christ Iesus, with eternall glory.
(KJVA) Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(LITV) Because of this, I endure all things on account of the elect, that they also may obtain salvation in Christ Jesus, with everlasting glory.
(MKJV) Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(RV) Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(Vulgate) ideo omnia sustineo propter electos ut et ipsi salutem consequantur quae est in Christo Iesu *** gloria caelesti
(YLT) because of this all things do I endure, because of the choice ones, that they also salvation may obtain that is in Christ Jesus, with glory age-during.
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