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Old 11-21-2009, 12:50 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,325 posts, read 20,055,628 times
Reputation: 2113

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Richard how many times do i have to point out to you that all the verses from Romans you keep quoting do not say "God has chosen some for salvation and others He has not" , why do you keep ignoring this simple fact .
Yes it talks about people being chosen , but what it is not saying as you keep on trying to imply is God has chosen some for salvation and others He has not. You are clearly misunderstanding the scriptures.

The scriptures are very clear and it tells us He's the Savior of All men (not just a chosen few)1 Tim 4 verse 10 (read it).

I question the spirit you and others who persist in this vain attempt to believe you are one of the chosen remnant and others are not , it's just smacks of spiritual pride.

Chosen imply's special and like i have already said to you if you believe you are special in God's eyes , you will see others as being special in God's eyes and not just yourself, and while you persist in believing you are special which you must do because you believe only the chosen are saved (even though you have no scripture to support it) you cannot see others has God sees others.


I am done debating with you until you can supply just one scripture that says or even imply's(just to make it easier for you) "God has chosen some for salvation and others He has not", because so far you have not come close to giving me just the one scripture.

HE'S THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN 1 TIM 4 VERSE 10

You are not questioning me you are questioning the scripture To say He's the Savior of the chosen totally contradicts scripture .Just re-read some of your posts and just like some one who used to post on here you do believe All andThe World means the elect .

So what makes you so special that makes you chosen ? Was it your good looks ? maybe super spiritual ? , maybe you deserved it ? or do you believe He just chose people at random and denied Himself by becoming a respecter of persons ?.

Last edited by pcamps; 11-21-2009 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:09 PM
 
Location: US
26,413 posts, read 14,013,122 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Richard how many times do i have to point out to you that all the verses from Romans you keep quoting do not say "God has chosen some for salvation and others He has not" , why do you keep ignoring this simple fact .
Yes it talks about people being chosen , but what it is not saying as you keep on trying to imply is God has chosen some for salvation and others He has not. You are clearly misunderstanding the scriptures.

The scriptures are very clear and it tells us He's the Savior of All men (not just a chosen few)1 Tim 4 verse 10 (read it).

I question the spirit you and others who persist in this vain attempt to believe you are one of the chosen remnant and others are not , it's just smacks of spiritual pride.

Chosen imply's special and like i have already said to you if you believe you are special in God's eyes , you will see others as being special in God's eyes and not just yourself, and while you persist in believing you are special which you must do because you believe only the chosen are saved (even though you have no scripture to support it) you cannot see others has God sees others.


I am done debating with you until you can supply just one scripture that says or even imply's(just to make it easier for you) "God has chosen some for salvation and others He has not", because so far you have not come close to giving me just the one scripture.

HE'S THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN 1 TIM 4 VERSE 10

You are not questioning me you are questioning the scripture To say He's the Savior of the chosen totally contradicts scripture .Just re-read some of your posts and just like some one who used to post on here you do believe All andThe World means the elect .

So what makes you so special that makes you chosen ? Was it your good looks ? maybe super spiritual ? , maybe you deserved it ? or do you believe He just chose people at random and denied Himself by becoming a respecter of persons ?.
1Ti 4:10 ForG1063 thereforeG1519 G5124 we bothG2532 labourG2872 andG2532 suffer reproach,G3679 becauseG3754 we trustG1679 inG1909 the livingG2198 God,G2316 whoG3739 isG2076 the SaviourG4990 of allG3956 men,G444 speciallyG3122 of those that believe.G4103

G3122
μάλιστα
malista
mal'-is-tah
Neuter plural of the superlative of an apparently primary adverb μάλα mala (very); (adverb) most (in the greatest degree) or particularly: - chiefly, most of all, (e-) specially.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,649,505 times
Reputation: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I am done debating with you until you can supply just one scripture that says or even imply's(just to make it easier for you) "God has chosen some for salvation and others He has not", because so far you have not come close to giving me just the one scripture. .
If I may jump in here, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son…Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth." (Romans 9:6,7,9,18)

There are literally hundreds if you are willing. It is difficult for people to believe the Bible and what God says. However, if we stop being hostile to it and submit to its authority we would not be having these "forum arguments."
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:39 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,325 posts, read 20,055,628 times
Reputation: 2113
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:40 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,419,652 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
If I may jump in here, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son…Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth." (Romans 9:6,7,9,18)

There are literally hundreds if you are willing. It is difficult for people to believe the Bible and what God says. However, if we stop being hostile to it and submit to its authority we would not be having these "forum arguments."
Hi Marks,

I'm sure pcamps will ask: where does Romans 9:6-9, and 9:18 say God has chosen some for salvation? Like you say: believe what these scriptures say, don't add to them.
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,649,505 times
Reputation: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Hi Marks,

I'm sure pcamps will ask: where does Romans 9:6-9, and 9:18 say God has chosen some for salvation? Like you say: believe what these scriptures say, don't add to them.
She asked for one verse. Both Romans chapter 8 and 9 sum up the whole of the doctrine very well. If one verse does not say to satisfy it is not illegal to use many others to get to what God is saying.

"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1 Corinthians 2:13)

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Old 11-23-2009, 07:53 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,325 posts, read 20,055,628 times
Reputation: 2113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
She asked for one verse. Both Romans chapter 8 and 9 sum up the whole of the doctrine very well. If one verse does not say to satisfy it is not illegal to use many others to get to what God is saying.

"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1 Corinthians 2:13)

Hey i'm a He not a she , oh yea what Lego just said to you.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:00 PM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,617 posts, read 50,868,608 times
Reputation: 60657
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The doctrine of Calvinism baffle me. I find it truly warped IMHO. Perhaps its just me.

This is what Calvinism says:

1. God predestines a man to sin

2. God predestines the man to eternal torture for the sins the man was predestined to do.

And somehow this is justice.

Justice?

Does that make sense to anyone here?
No. But I had years of therapy to overcome my Calivinistic religious upbringing with its emphasis on hell and death so I no longer feel the need to make sense of it.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:39 PM
 
1,616 posts, read 3,268,882 times
Reputation: 1727
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The doctrine of Calvinism baffle me. I find it truly warped IMHO. Perhaps its just me.

This is what Calvinism says:

1. God predestines a man to sin

2. God predestines the man to eternal torture for the sins the man was predestined to do.

And somehow this is justice.

Justice?

Does that make sense to anyone here?
As in "Calvin and Hobbes"? If so I love them!
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:32 AM
 
Location: US
26,413 posts, read 14,013,122 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
If I may jump in here, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son…Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth." (Romans 9:6,7,9,18)

There are literally hundreds if you are willing. It is difficult for people to believe the Bible and what God says. However, if we stop being hostile to it and submit to its authority we would not be having these "forum arguments."
My education of systematic theology comes from Hatfield seminary, God does not choose based on merit but, based on His own counsel, His own will...He does not choose baced on foreseen events either for He has ordained all, nothing occurs outside of God.............
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