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Old 11-24-2009, 03:35 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all
It is talking about Isreal, not the whole world...........You are forgetting that Salvation is primarily for the Jews, Gentiles are only grafted in, adopted according to the will of God............
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:41 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Hi Marks,

I'm sure pcamps will ask: where does Romans 9:6-9, and 9:18 say God has chosen some for salvation? Like you say: believe what these scriptures say, don't add to them.
It is basically saying God chooses whom He wishes according to His own counsel, will....not according to merit...what are the objects of mercy....what are the objects of wrath having been prepared for destruction?
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:49 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,206 posts, read 19,986,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It is talking about Isreal, not the whole world...........You are forgetting that Salvation is primarily for the Jews, Gentiles are only grafted in, adopted according to the will of God............

If the Gentiles are grafted in do you not think He's had mercy on them also ??? , or is is just gentile Calvinists He grafted in ?


No, salvation is for the world John 3 verse 16

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world 1 john 2 :2

Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world . John 1 : 29

Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. Acts 10 verse 34.

If any man hear my voice Rev 3 : 20


1For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

Just a couple of scriptures that come straight to mind
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Old 11-24-2009, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,643,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
...God does not choose based on merit but, based on His own counsel, His own will...He does not choose baced on foreseen events either for He has ordained all, nothing occurs outside of God.............
I agree.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:28 AM
 
Location: US
26,268 posts, read 13,935,357 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If the Gentiles are grafted in do you not think He's had mercy on them also ??? , or is is just gentile Calvinists He grafted in ?


No, salvation is for the world John 3 verse 16

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world 1 john 2 :2

Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world . John 1 : 29

Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. Acts 10 verse 34.

If any man hear my voice Rev 3 : 20


1For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

Just a couple of scriptures that come straight to mind
Actually, you looked them up......Unless you look at those verses from a temporal/eternal point of view thne you have difficulty reconcileing them with the verses that imply eternal punishment......i'll bet you believe that Satan and his legions will also be saved.....
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:14 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Actually, you looked them up......Unless you look at those verses from a temporal/eternal point of view thne you have difficulty reconcileing them with the verses that imply eternal punishment......i'll bet you believe that Satan and his legions will also be saved.....
He looked them up? Are you being petty now? These are scriptures any student of the gospel should readily recall ... Perhaps it is necessary to look them up to quote them word for word, but he obviously knew they were in the bible to begin with. Let us forgo immaturity and debate as adults.


Now, there are no verses that imply eternal punishment when they are translated correctly. As i understand it, it is you that infer eternal punishment from them because of an hardened heart, blinded eyes, and ears that cannot hear.



Yes even the fallen angels will be reconciled to God, as it is written ...



Col 1:16-20
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.




What does the word reconcile mean?




reconcile - Greek : "apokatallassō"

1)
to reconcile completely
2)
to reconcile back again
3) bring back a former state of harmony






Believe it people, because it is true ...


Quote:
From Merriam-Websters dictionary

reconcile

One entry found.

Main Entry: rec·on·cile
Pronunciation: \ˈre-kən-ˌsī(-ə)l\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): rec·on·ciled; rec·on·cil·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French or Latin; Anglo-French reconciler, from Latin reconciliare, from re- + conciliare to conciliate
Date: 14th century
transitive verb : to restore to friendship or harmony <reconciled the factions>

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-24-2009 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:27 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,206 posts, read 19,986,915 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Actually, you looked them up......Unless you look at those verses from a temporal/eternal point of view thne you have difficulty reconcileing them with the verses that imply eternal punishment......i'll bet you believe that Satan and his legions will also be saved.....
Richard how can you be so presumptious to make such a comment ? , how could you possibly know ? . Are you judging me by your own lack of ability to recall scripture ?.

I cannot tell you how many times i have read the bible ,i used to devour it,but all i had was head knowledge.
When i first believed i was told by this evangelical brethren based fellowship that i belonged to that i should memorize the scriptures and that i did , but memorizing scriptures means nothing unless the scripture you are reading is revealing Jesus to us.

Did you know in John 14 that Jesus said i will bring to rememberance to things i have spoken to you ?.

Last edited by pcamps; 11-24-2009 at 04:18 PM..
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:50 PM
 
Location: US
26,268 posts, read 13,935,357 times
Reputation: 1595
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If the Gentiles are grafted in do you not think He's had mercy on them also ??? , or is is just gentile Calvinists He grafted in ?


No, salvation is for the world John 3 verse 16

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world 1 john 2 :2

Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world . John 1 : 29

Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. Acts 10 verse 34.

If any man hear my voice Rev 3 : 20


1For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

Just a couple of scriptures that come straight to mind
Then Jesus contradicted Himself when He said:

G1508
έἰ μή
ei mē
i may
From G1487 and G3361; if not: - but, except (that), if not, more than, save (only) that, saving, till.
[SIZE=3]
[/SIZE]Mat 15:24 ButG1161 heG3588 answeredG611 and said,G2036 I am notG3756 sentG649 butG1508 untoG1519 the lostG622 sheepG4263 of the houseG3624 of Israel.G2474
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Old 11-24-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,206 posts, read 19,986,915 times
Reputation: 2107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Then Jesus contradicted Himself when He said:

G1508
έἰ μή
ei mē
i may
From G1487 and G3361; if not: - but, except (that), if not, more than, save (only) that, saving, till.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]Mat 15:24 ButG1161 heG3588 answeredG611 and said,G2036 I am notG3756 sentG649 butG1508 untoG1519 the lostG622 sheepG4263 of the houseG3624 of Israel.G2474
You really are on a mission to prove that God does not the world (All of mankind) . The scriptures are so crystal clear that He loves the whole of mankind that a blind man on a galloping horse can see it .

You are contradicting the divine nature and character mate , by your insistence that God chose some for salvation while the rest of mankind He didn't.

This is where you are confusing yourself , yes Jesus came to his own, but his own received him not .

Now open your bible, read Acts and the epistles and see that the gospel was then taken to the gentiles also . It's plain as day , what is wrong with you that you would fight against the truth that God loves all of mankind ?.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:09 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You really are on a mission to prove that God does not the world (All of mankind) . The scriptures are so crystal clear that He loves the whole of mankind that a blind man on a galloping horse can see it .

You are contradicting the divine nature and character mate , by your insistence that God chose some for salvation while the rest of mankind He didn't.

This is where you are confusing yourself , yes Jesus came to his own, but his own received him not .

Now open your bible, read Acts and the epistles and see that the gospel was then taken to the gentiles also . It's plain as day , what is wrong with you that you would fight against the truth that God loves all of mankind ?.
I imagine it is because he doesn't love all of mankind, so he cant believe that God does either ... What other explanation is there?
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