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Old 11-29-2009, 06:46 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,145 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2105

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Your avoiding the warning.............one needs to take heed to the given Scripture.

Yet, it is obvious one is trying to find a way to avoid the TRUTH of the warning!

Here's your link....pcamps!
Genesis 12 Commentary - God calls Abram, and blesses him with a promise of Christ. - BibleGateway.com
What is the warning ? . If you noticed i said if "we believe" so obviously i was speaking to myself also. Tell me how can you love like the Lord if you believe His grace,love and mercy is limited , it's impossible to do so , because if you could you are greater than the god you believe in.

The fact of the matter is i believe there is no end to His grace , love and mercy because that is who God is by nature and character, and that is why i believe in the universal reconciliation of all mankind , because His mercy truimph's over judgement James 2 : 13 .

So when you are argue the the fact that the lost end up in eternal torment you obviously believe there is an end to God's grace,love and mercy and you have the audacity to say be careful to me lol.

Last edited by pcamps; 11-29-2009 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 11-29-2009, 07:25 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,039,494 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
What is the warning ? . If you noticed i said if "we believe" so obviously i was speaking to myself also. Tell me how can you love like the Lord if you believe His grace,love and mercy is limited , it's impossible to do so , because if you could you are greater than the god you believe in.

The fact of the matter is i believe there is no end to His grace , love and mercy because that is who God is by nature and characterand that is why i believe in the universal reconciliation of all mankind , because His mercy truimph's over judgement James 2 : 13 .

So when you are argue the the fact that the lost end up in eternal torment you obviously believe there is an end to God's grace,love and mercy and you have the audacity to say be careful to me lol.
Did you even read the bold in your own post? Then read the bold in Richard1965 post?
And then the Scripture in my post?
That is the warning................

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Richard your interpretation of the scripture has been refuted time and time again, it would be tedious to keep going over the same ground with you , you say that nothing gets past you , i would 100% disagree with you because there are 3 things blatantly obvious that do, the fact that He is the Savior of All backed fully by the scriptures , the knowledge of His divine nature and character, and the warped belief that God randomly chose certain people for salvation and damnation.
I asked you for just one scripture that clearly says and defines God chose some and not others for Salvation and you have failed to do it , yet you believe such hogwash.
Very nice that you have studied hebrew,greek and aramaic , but you know what it does not impress me at all. You obviously think because you have studied you are superior judging by your closing statement on your post.
In one of my last posts i stated scriptures that quickly came to mind in response to another of your posts and you doubted that i was able to recall scriptures , and here you are boasting that you have studied hebrew, greek and aramaic for 20 years lol, come down from your pedestal.
As a man thinks in his heart so is he and he's also a reflection of the interpretation of the god he believes in .So if you believe God's grace,mercy,and love is limited it would go to say so is yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
I am not saying that He is just saving the Jews, of which i am one, what i am saying is that no one can believe unless God quickens their spirit and we know by common experience that that is not so with everyone........There are people dieing in their sin of unbelief everyday...if God says He calls the elected then that would mean the whole world is elected then that means that you don't have to believe in Christ to be elected.....you are not saved by works and excersizeing faith is a work, so, either God gives you faith which takes it out of your hands and is a work of God or you do it of your own will which is a selfwork......i've been doing this for over 20 years, thru the hebrew, greek, aramaic, the old translations of the bible, the new translations of the bible, the dead sea scrolls, etc....there is not much you can put past me.....in fact i recognize a lot of folks that post here are speaking from a spiritually young state.....i can say this because it sounds like what i used to sound like a long time ago.............
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Take heed.....

Gen.12:2-3
2. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

~In thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Jesus Christ is the great blessing of the world, the greatest that ever the world possessed. All the true blessedness the world is now, or ever shall be possessed of, is owing to Abram and his posterity. Through them we have a Bible, a Saviour, and a gospel. They are the stock on which the Christian church is grafted.

And a note on the other, it doesn't matter what you think.....pcamps. God's word is the TRUTH according to JESUS CHRIST (who is the word)....not pcamps is the word!

Quote:
because His mercy truimph's over judgement James 2 : 13 .
And yet you do not show the mercy of God, you who proclaims His attributes.....
It seems you place yourself on the throne of God by judging what is in the heart of many in this forum....see below!

Quote:
Salvation and you have failed to do it , yet you believe such hogwash.
Very nice that you have studied hebrew,greek and aramaic , but you know what it does not impress me at all. You obviously think because you have studied you are superior judging by your closing statement on your post.
In one of my last posts i stated scriptures that quickly came to mind in response to another of your posts and you doubted that i was able to recall scriptures , and here you are boasting that you have studied hebrew, greek and aramaic for 20 years lol, come down from your pedestal.
As a man thinks in his heart so is he and he's also a reflection of the interpretation of the god he believes in .So if you believe God's grace,mercy,and love is limited it would go to say so is yours


Quote:
So when you are argue the the fact that the lost end up in eternal torment you obviously believe there is an end to God's grace,love and mercy and you have the audacity to say be careful to me lol


And another note.....where did this ET come from in my op? Your not reading the post....you are just posting what you want!! LOL....there was no argument brought forth about eternal hell..........pcamps!!
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:09 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,145 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2105
Latte Chic you are hilarious where in those quotes of mine am i showing no mercy . I am replying to a man who claims he is superior because he's stuidied hebrew,greek and aramaic.

Why did i mention ET ?

Because any person who believes in it like yourself believes God's love, mercy and grace is limited without a shadow of doubt.

Again what part of "if we believe" do you not understand ?

Or is that to harsh to a way to ask you ?

Here i will try again

Dear Latte Chic i am having a very hard time that you failed to miss the fact that i said "If we believe", therefore obviously not judging in my post , i do apologize for not making this more clearer to you so you are not so easily mistaken and hurt , forgetting that you are a very sensitive person and it's only you can be frank with other posters who persist in limiting God's , love and mercy to all of His creation.
My sincere apologies.

And on another note it does not matter what you think when you limit the love,grace and mercy of God ,but of cause me saying this will be interpreted as being unloving , even though you use the same language.

Latte Chic you are so easily offended , , this is because you believe in a conditional loving God whose love,grace and mercy is limited, you believe once saved always saved but you are not secure even in this because if you was you would not be so insecure as to get easily offended . Trust the Lord not a doctrine then you will be secure in Him.

Just because someone disagrees with you or is frank with you does not mean they are being unloving .

Please tell me how you can love like the Lord if you think and believe that His love,grace and mercy is limited like the calvinists and fundamentalists believe ?

Last edited by pcamps; 11-29-2009 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 11-29-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,039,494 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Latte Chic you are hilarious where in those quotes of mine am i showing no mercy . I am replying to a man who claims he is superior because he's stuidied hebrew,greek and aramaic.

Why did i mention ET ?

Because any person who believes in it like yourself believes God's love, mercy and grace is limited without a shadow of doubt.

Again what part of "if we believe" do you not understand ?

Or is that to harsh to a way to ask you ?

Here i will try again

Dear Latte Chic i am having a very hard time that you failed to miss the fact that i said "If we believe", therefore obviously not judging in my post , i do apologize for not making this more clearer to you so you are not so easily mistaken and hurt , forgetting that you are a very sensitive person and it's only you can be frank with other posters who persist in limiting God's , love and mercy to all of His creation.
My sincere apologies.

And on another note it does not matter what you think when you limit the love,grace and mercy of God ,but of cause me saying this will be interpreted as being unloving , even though you use the same language.

Latte Chic you are so easily offended , this is because you believe in a conditional loving God whose love,grace and mercy is limited, you believe once saved always saved but you are not secure even in this because if you was you would not be so insecure as to get easily offended . Trust the Lord not a doctrine then you will be secure in Him.
pcamps.....you are really funny, funny, and did I say, funny.... LOL! I mean that literally..... Your really don't understand do you.....This is just way too comical!
Oh, I needed a good laugh this morning....seriously, plus we need a good comedian in this forum to keeps us going....LOL!
I am so sure other's will get such a kick out of this whole ordeal this morning, way to funny! LOL.....
I really wish you could see yourself in your posting....pcamps.. LOL!! Oh, well, another day in the Christianity Forum with pcamps.....love ya, anyway!!!
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:08 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,145 posts, read 19,964,744 times
Reputation: 2105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
pcamps.....you are really funny, funny, and did I say, funny.... LOL! I mean that literally..... Your really don't understand do you.....This is just way too comical!
Oh, I needed a good laugh this morning....seriously, plus we need a good comedian in this forum to keeps us going....LOL!
I am so sure other's will get such a kick out of this whole ordeal this morning, way to funny! LOL.....
I really wish you could see yourself in your posting....pcamps.. LOL!! Oh, well, another day in the Christianity Forum with pcamps.....love ya, anyway!!!
Latte Chic this is my final reponse to you . You for some unknown reason think i am being unloving because i call the belief that God chose some for salvation and others He didn't hogwash ,iif you believe such hogwash then i would not even entertain the thought of serving your god. On many occasions i have read you call those who believe in UR all manner of things , and not once has anyone who believed in UR accused you of the same thing you accuse others of that being unloving, this tells me a lot about yourself and those who believe different to you, i would strongly suggest that is you who does not understand that to disagree does not mean you are being unloving.

Carry on
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,039,494 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Latte Chic this is my final reponse to you . You for some unknown reason think i am being unloving because i call the belief that God chose some for salvation and others He didn't hogwash ,iif you believe such hogwash then i would not even entertain the thought of serving your god. On many occasions i have read you call those who believe in UR all manner of things , and not once has anyone who believed in UR accused you of the same thing you accuse others of that being unloving, this tells me a lot about yourself and those who believe different to you, i would strongly suggest that is you who does not understand that to disagree does not mean you are being unloving.

Carry on
You're still avoiding my first post.......going in every other direction, yet your not understanding what was posted or you would know what was being said.....but you have gone off on ET and all that other stuff........only because you don't understand it and what was posted to you. It is so obvious!
.

Here it is once again....
Below.....READ THE BOLD S-L-O-W-LY....pcamps,
OK.....HERE WE GO,
IN YOUR POST AND RICHARD1965 AND THEN THE SCRIPTURE I POSTED IN MY POST....
None of what is in my op has nothing to do with ET, you being unloving, and whatever else you have going on there in the brain. It's not about ...."i call the belief that God chose some for salvation and others He didn't hogwash".



Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Richard your interpretation of the scripture has been refuted time and time again, it would be tedious to keep going over the same ground with you , you say that nothing gets past you , i would 100% disagree with you because there are 3 things blatantly obvious that do, the fact that He is the Savior of All backed fully by the scriptures , the knowledge of His divine nature and character, and the warped belief that God randomly chose certain people for salvation and damnation.
I asked you for just one scripture that clearly says and defines God chose some and not others for Salvation and you have failed to do it , yet you believe such hogwash.
Very nice that you have studied hebrew,greek and aramaic , but you know what it does not impress me at all. You obviously think because you have studied you are superior judging by your closing statement on your post.
In one of my last posts i stated scriptures that quickly came to mind in response to another of your posts and you doubted that i was able to recall scriptures , and here you are boasting that you have studied hebrew, greek and aramaic for 20 years lol, come down from your pedestal.
As a man thinks in his heart so is he and he's also a reflection of the interpretation of the god he believes in .So if you believe God's grace,mercy,and love is limited it would go to say so is yours.
Take heed.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
I am not saying that He is just saving the Jews, of which i am one, what i am saying is that no one can believe unless God quickens their spirit and we know by common experience that that is not so with everyone........There are people dieing in their sin of unbelief everyday...if God says He calls the elected then that would mean the whole world is elected then that means that you don't have to believe in Christ to be elected.....you are not saved by works and excersizeing faith is a work, so, either God gives you faith which takes it out of your hands and is a work of God or you do it of your own will which is a selfwork......i've been doing this for over 20 years, thru the hebrew, greek, aramaic, the old translations of the bible, the new translations of the bible, the dead sea scrolls, etc....there is not much you can put past me.....in fact i recognize a lot of folks that post here are speaking from a spiritually young state.....i can say this because it sounds like what i used to sound like a long time ago.............

Gen.12:2-3
2. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

~In thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Jesus Christ is the great blessing of the world, the greatest that ever the world possessed. All the true blessedness the world is now, or ever shall be possessed of, is owing to Abram and his posterity. Through them we have a Bible, a Saviour, and a gospel. They are the stock on which the Christian church is grafted.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
That's a very big "if". Do you know that some do not hear the calling (spiritually)? Is it possible they do at the moment before death, or perhaps similar to a small infant, who dies shortly after birth? And are we not ignorant of how the Spirit works in these cases? Do infants who die hear the calling before dying? Do these infants have the Son of God dwelling in their hearts at birth, without knowledge of the Gospel? Is an infant saved (if you believe they are) any different than an aged person (child, adult, senior) would be?

This scripture has always intrigued me, what do you make of it?:

Joh 1:9 He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

I don't have an answer as to when and where the Spirit works regeneration, but I don't want to assume He does not, considering the numerous universal passages that would suggest otherwise. Is there a reason we should not hope in the goodness of God declared in those passages?
A baby is not born with God in there hearts, we are all born into sin, and the the way one believes is thru hearing the word of God, but, if your spirit is not quickened by God you will not believe no matter how many times the Gospel is preached to you. You cannot step outside the structure God has set for Salvation. By the Grace of God you are given Faith thru the quickening of your spirit and hearing of the Gospel....It is all the work of God thru the Holy Spirit..it is not of ourselves by even an ounce...So, if God says one has to be quickened, hear the Gospel, believe and be baptized to be saved.......what do you think?

You are just having a hard time believeing that God would punish any of His creatures.....But, it is all throughout scripture and God did not put anyone in a "time out" for sin, they simply perished.....we cannot make God in our own image.....The "God is Love" mantra that permeates our society now is also used by the gay church to give comfort to the gay community, to give them assurance that all is ok with God as long as they are in a committed relationship with the same sex.....it is very clear in the OT Leviticus 18:22:

Lev 18:22 -And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it is. - Young's Literal Translation, 1898

In spite of this very clear command in the Bible they attempt to twist scripture to benifit themselves and the result is that we have the gay church community growing......Come on, use deductive reasoning....
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I have not forgotten his attributes. That is why Jesus went to the cross. So we don't suffer the penalty of our own sins and have to suffer the consequences of those "other attributes". We are forgiven in Christ by His death and justified by His resurrection. I don't believe anyone enters the Kingdom of God without Christ's righteousness being imputed to them and it's knowledge being given to them through the Spirits regeneration of the mind. What makes you think otherwise?
Just some of the things you say....
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,915,192 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Nothing could be further from the truth. How was Abraham justified, by law or faith?:

Rom 4:3 for what doth the writing say? `And Abraham did believe God, and it was reckoned to him--to righteousness;'

How did anyone possess spiritual life before Christ's death and resurrection?

Joh 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

Joh 6:47 `Verily, verily, I say to you, He who is believing in me, hath life age-during;

All these believed in the Gospel.
The New Covenant did not come untill after the sacrifice....during Christ's mission on earth people were still under the requirements of the OT...It is similar to a contract, it is not binding and effectual until it is signed, and Christ sacrifice on the cross was His signature.....Considering John 6:47, While He is stateing this the folks hearing still had to wait for the sacrifice, because without His sacrifice there would be no Salvation.....There is a chronological order here that cannot be ignored....


Joh 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.

there are two steps here, hearing AND believing, one cannot just hear and have eternal life, but he must also BELIEVE. Now, he also says that "to judgment he doth not come", it is not saying that just by hearing but also by believing and what judgement is He talking about, because we know from scripture that He will judge his own, so, we do come into judgement, but, not THE Judgement......So, i guess the point i am trying to make here is that you cannot read the scriptures in the way you would like to see them but with reference to other scripture in order to deduce what they are actually talking about....
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:12 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,313,186 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
A baby is not born with God in there hearts, we are all born into sin, and the the way one believes is thru hearing the word of God, but, if your spirit is not quickened by God you will not believe no matter how many times the Gospel is preached to you. You cannot step outside the structure God has set for Salvation. By the Grace of God you are given Faith thru the quickening of your spirit and hearing of the Gospel....It is all the work of God thru the Holy Spirit..it is not of ourselves by even an ounce...So, if God says one has to be quickened, hear the Gospel, believe and be baptized to be saved.......what do you think?

You are just having a hard time believeing that God would punish any of His creatures.....But, it is all throughout scripture and God did not put anyone in a "time out" for sin, they simply perished.....we cannot make God in our own image.....The "God is Love" mantra that permeates our society now is also used by the gay church to give comfort to the gay community, to give them assurance that all is ok with God as long as they are in a committed relationship with the same sex.....it is very clear in the OT Leviticus 18:22:

Lev 18:22 -And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it is. - Young's Literal Translation, 1898

In spite of this very clear command in the Bible they attempt to twist scripture to benifit themselves and the result is that we have the gay church community growing......Come on, use deductive reasoning....
Let's start this again...LOL

I'll answer your question first, and then you answer mine. I believe infants do enter the Kingdom of God based upon Christ's work alone. Through Christ's death, the sins of the infant (inherited from Adam) are imputed to Christ, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to them. Through Christ's resurrection, the infant is declared justified and righteous before God. It's what is known as the Gospel my friend , I also believe that the Holy Spirit quickens or regenerates their soul based upon the work of Christ alone (the Gospel) prior to their entering the Kingdom.

So you tell me, based upon your theory of salvation, as you've stated above (hearing the Gospel preached, having to believe it and then be baptized): Do you believe that any infant that dies during or after birth enters the Kingdom of Heaven? Any at all?
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