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Old 12-07-2009, 02:02 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,330,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
...Don't take my words out of context.
This is becoming a friggin merry go round...LOL It's like a baloney sandwich without the bread, nothing but baloney...LOL

Look, ...ah forget it..LOL I'll wait to see what else you guys sell with out the bread, and check back latter tonight...
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,207,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
But you also believe this. In your other fold post for infants and children who never heard the Gospel. People who reject the Gospel have never heard the Gospel call spiritually either. Your own doctrine of Calvinism says so!! You know this but will not admit it...LOL

Why cannot these also be saved just like infants and young children (the other fold you believe Jesus speaks of) in the hereafter? And don't get me wrong, they could all be saved (regenerated by the Spirit) at the very moment of death. Do you know for a fact that they are not? Your arrogance concerning God's grace is flabbergasting to say the least...LOL

Tell me about the timing of regeneration, if you know all things concerning God's wisdom and the workings of the Holy Spirit:

Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

I don't, and I don't think you do either my friend...

While Adam’s sinful nature has been imputed to us, death spread because men sin, as is fitting with their nature. Keep in mind while David in Psalm 51 testifies, Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me

David is explaining why he commits sin, not making the statement that having a birth that brought him forth in sin caused him death.

Now I would base most of my thoughts here from verse 13 of Romans 5, where Paul says that sin is not counted where there is no law. To be sure, I don’t believe that this law is the Torah, but rather the conscience that we received upon eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and therefore all men have the law written on their hearts - Romans 2:14.

So, the question would become, “Is the law present in an infant?”
I don’t think it is. I will go on to show you why.

The law was in place for man to see that he cannot have righteousness, not for him to see that he can. Infants don't know the law, so therefore, they are saved.

Romans 7:7-11 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

Now this is some interesting scripture. Again, Paul mentions that apart from the law sin lies dead, but what really strikes me is verse 9 where Paul firmly asserts that he actually was alive at one point, until the law came and produced death. So how was Paul alive at one point if, like David, he was conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity?

I would suggest it is because the law comes to a human as they gain a conscience. Thus is seems fitting that the infants and some of the mentally handicapped, though born with original sin, have not died because they have no law.

It is for this reason that I believe that all infants will go to Heaven, as well as others who have not yet received the law written on their hearts.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:09 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,824,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Yes He can, but saying He will is another story. That is what UR does, saying that He will.
All UR does is say what the bible says. God will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

Its everyone else who says that God can't save people after death or that God doesn't want to save everyone.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,207,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
All UR does is say what the bible says. God will have all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

Its everyone else who says that God can't save people after death or that God doesn't want to save everyone.

Men...men.....men.....FLESH.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:13 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,824,415 times
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Oi vey, round and round the merry-go-round indeed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If I may interject....when on the day of judgment when they open the book of life and look at the account of my life or yours. I trust it will be very big books but what of an infant...where is the account on that child's life or is there even a book and how can God hold them accountable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
See now we are getting into dangerous territory. You are saying those without any works cannot be held accountable so they are saved by their "lack of works"!

If babies, are "auto-saved" in this way, then Andrea Yates did a great act by drowning her 5 small children.

--

The point here is God CAN save people after they have died, even though they never could have repented before their death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I never said that............. Andrea Yates....that is a bizarre explaination to what I said.
Then just what the H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEYSTICKS were you saying Fundy?!?!?

You said "what of an infant...where is the account on that child's life or is there even a book and how can God hold them accountable?"

What did you mean by this statement if you didn't mean that babies are auto-saved because they have no works?

Do you, like Richard (and probably others), believe that many babies will be thrown into the lake of fire to be tormented for eternity?

If you don't believe that, I commend you, but then you must acknowledge that God can save people after they have died!
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,207,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post

If you don't believe that, I commend you, but then you must acknowledge that God can save people after they have died!

We cannot, and neither can you, because the scripture does not state anything of the sort. Babies do NOT know the law!
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Men...men.....men.....FLESH.
I really have no idea what your point is, but I'm sure you are familiar with the verse from which I quoted; its been repeated (and dismissed) often enough around here:

1 Tim 2
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

People will ignore it, rewrite it, change the meaning of words, just to avoid the truth that it preaches, that God will save all men.

Since you have already acknowledged that God can save men after death, you are well on the way to understanding the truth that God can also save ALL men.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:22 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,824,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Quote:

If you don't believe that, I commend you, but then you must acknowledge that God can save people after they have died!
We cannot, and neither can you, because the scripture does not state anything of the sort. Babies do NOT know the law!
Now you are backtracking. (sorry, your response is ambiguous - are you saying we cannot believe babies are thrown into hell forever, or are you saying God cannot save people after they have died?)

Which is it. Are babies saved after death or NOT? Either you believe they are saved after death, or you believe they are tortured in the lake of fire for eternity.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:24 PM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,578,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Oi vey, round and round the merry-go-round indeed...







Then just what the H-E-DOUBLE-HOCKEYSTICKS were you saying Fundy?!?!?

You said "what of an infant...where is the account on that child's life or is there even a book and how can God hold them accountable?"

What did you mean by this statement if you didn't mean that babies are auto-saved because they have no works?

Do you, like Richard (and probably others), believe that many babies will be thrown into the lake of fire to be tormented for eternity?

If you don't believe that, I commend you, but then you must acknowledge that God can save people after they have died!
Very simple....who is the book for? Is it for God or is it for the person being judged? to remind them of the millions of sins even they themselves forgot, to increase even more justification in their condemnation. Ever try to show a book to a baby? That infant wouldn't even begin to understand nor a person who is mentally handicapped.
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Old 12-07-2009, 02:27 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,824,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Very simple....who is the book for? Is it for God or is it for the person being judged? to remind them of the millions of sins even they themselves forgot, to increase even more justification in their condemnation. Ever try to show a book to a baby? That infant wouldn't even begin to understand nor a person who is mentally handicapped.
You didn't answer the question.

Do you, like Richard (and probably others), believe that many babies will be thrown into the lake of fire to be tormented for eternity? YES or NO.

If you don't believe that, I commend you, but then you must acknowledge that God can save people after they have died! Do you agree God can save people after they have died? YES or NO.
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