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Old 12-07-2009, 07:10 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,314,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
..So what His will is righteous and will come to fruition, but it is man's choice do be wicked, and forsake his way, thus his pardon revoked.
So we're back to man's choice determining his salvation, again? LOL. I'm beyond spiritual meltdown. Now your making me ... LOL

1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

Rom 9:18 so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden.

Both passages speak to the absolute sovereignty of God in determining His purpose concerning man and both use the same Greek word (Strong's 2309) for will.

θέλω
thélō; ***. thelḗsō. To will, wish, desire, implying active volition and purpose.
(I) To will, i.e., to have in mind, purpose, intend, please.

If this is not sufficient, than I don't know what is .

Quote:
Remember, this is man, not soul or spirit after death. Something that UR seems to ever so confuse. God's will and desire is that all men come to the knowledge of truth, but it is man's choice and rejection of that knowledge which condemns him.
1 Tim 2:4 is speaking of man's spirit being saved. Not his flesh. Man's spirit is what is being regenerated (saved) by the Holy Spirit. As to where it is regenerated (within the flesh or out of the flesh) is not relevant.

Joh 3:6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,213 posts, read 19,991,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I don't put God in a box...you people do. God can do anything He wants, and if He wasnt to save all men, so be it, but I don't go around saying He will or won't, and the scripture does NOT say He will...just what desires to be. The scripture says people will fall from grace, a suffer eternal death...I don't say this, the scripture does.

You people tiwst and mold the word of God to your own rules.
Like Brimstone and Aionion and so forth. It is butchering the Word.

Eternal is Eternal..Deal with it....our friends and family members that rejected the truth, are dead eternally...that is what the scripture says. Period.
I actually believe you people interpret the scriptures through your preconceived idea of who God is .

Anything that does not fit in with your nicely packaged doctrine is rejected , you place more importance over your doctrine then you do over the nature and character of God and in doing so would rather have our Lord portayed as someone worse than Hitler, if it meant protecting the doctrine you worship.

God does not do what the Hell He wants . "God is love" now go and read in 1 Corinthians 13 how Love manifests itself , if your idea of love does not fit in with the description of love , i would recommend that you drop that idea.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,114 times
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Of course you are mad...you are UR and you are wrong. There is aplace such as eternal death you know..the scripture teaches it...and there is such a place as eteranl life, the scripture teaches that as well, same words, two different places...and there is such a eternal kingdom which is God's...the scripture teaches that, but you, like all URers, pick and choose what you want to accept and what you don't want to accept. Your premise, other than Katonjj, who is closer than all of you and your futurist paradigm of UR, to the truth because she embraced Full Preterism. Embrace Preterism, and your foundation will collapse beneath your feet. In time it will....His work is done. He has already reconciled the world to Him. It is the ministry of Christianity that plants that seed of the gospel, and it is God who regenarates that seed into something that enables His Glory unto Him.

But reject it, and you are dead.....forever. Deal it Alabama Storm, your paradigm is contradictory to the entire word of God, not just the little bits and pieces you choose to support your claims. You must gaze into the whole picture, and rightly divide it, such is what you have failed, as well as others have failed in doing so.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I actually believe you people interpret the scriptures through your preconceived idea of who God is .

Anything that does not fit in with your nicely packaged doctrine is rejected , you place more importance over your doctrine then you do over the nature and character of God and in doing so would rather have our Lord portayed as someone worse than Hitler, if it meant protecting the doctrine you worship.

God does not do what the Hell He wants . "God is love" now go and read in 1 Corinthians 13 how Love manifests itself , if your idea of love does not fit in with the description of love , i would recommend that you drop that idea.
God is love and blesses those who accpet Him, but those that do not, are subject to His wrath. This is what the scripture teaches. You have nicely packaged a God that does not judge rightly for rejecting Him, and have discarded His omnipotence out the door in fear for those that turn from Him to live in their flesh, somehow being purified in some imaginary temporal fire, that completely negates His power and glory. I just tell you that some will inherit life, some death...and THAT is what the scripture teaches. Deal with it.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:34 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,213 posts, read 19,991,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
God is love and blesses those who accpet Him, but those that do not, are subject to His wrath. This is what the scripture teaches. You have nicely packaged a God that does not judge rightly for rejecting Him, and have discarded His omnipotence out the door in fear for those that turn from Him to live in their flesh, somehow being purified in some imaginary temporal fire, that completely negates His power and glory. I just tell you that some will inherit life, some death...and THAT is what the scripture teaches. Deal with it.
Well do you deny God is Love ? , Jesus is the revelation of what the Love of God is , Hebrews 1 : 3 , Ironmaw Lego and a few others have done a great job of refuting your preconceived ideas of what the wrath, justice and judgements of God are , so there is no need for me to go there.

I would suggest you seek to know Him who is the Good news (Luke 2 : 30) and give your doctrines a back seat or better still put them in the trunk.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:06 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,314,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
UR is such a false claim and they take the word of God and butcher it for their own rules.
Our rules?...LOL It's scriptural! What is it with you miserable modern day Calvinist's. In all fairness though, you're not a Calvinist. None of today's modern day Calvinist's are. Your doctrine is more in keeping with Arminianism and decisional regeneration founded upon a redemption that does not actually save...LOL But both are in error. Even Calvin acknowledged the universal passages when he saw them and had good enough sense to leave well enough alone when writing his commentaries. If truth be told, UR thinking is the spiritual outgrowth of true reformed theology (old Calvinism if you will) when seen within the universal passages that display God's love and saving grace for His creation, and especially man:

Psa 8:4 What is man that Thou rememberest him? The son of man that Thou inspectest him?

Out of curiosity, do you hold to the doctrine of absolute reprobation (supralapsarianism)?
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:14 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,314,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Of course you are mad...you are UR
That's not why I'm mad..LOL I'm angry because I've spent the better part of the day proclaiming the Gospel to you guy's and yet you still won't believe it! But, in the end, I can only plant and God gives the increase...
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:20 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,314,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Deal it Alabama Storm, your paradigm is contradictory to the entire word of God
The wonderful message of the Gospel is only contradictory to the natural mind my friend:

1Co 2:14 and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them , because spiritually they are discerned;
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:28 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,314,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
....His work is done. He has already reconciled the world to Him. It is the ministry of Christianity that plants that seed of the gospel, and it is God who regenarates that seed into something that enables His Glory unto Him.
You still don't get it. We both believe the above. The Gospel proclaims that all will receive it and be saved. Do you think Paul believed in the Gospel during the stoning of Stephen? Of course not. But in time, he did receive it while yet breathing threats against the Church. It wasn't Paul's doing, it was the work of the Spirit, as it is in all who believe. Why do you think it will be different with anyone else. I believe and I'm also fully persuaded that God will accomplish what He set out to do. Namely, to save all men! You don't, that's are difference.
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:46 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,314,782 times
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sciotamicks - When you proclaim the Gospel to an unbeliever, can you look that person in the eyes and say from your heart?

1. Christ died for your sins
2. Christ was buried, and on the third day He was resurrected to declare you justified before God
3. Believe the Gospel. It is true.

Can you do this?
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