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Old 12-07-2009, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
Reputation: 420

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So Alabama,

You believe that the spirit, after death, will be reconciled to God whether he believed in Christ during his life or not?

If you answer yes...then your answer is contrary to scripture.

All the OT and NT prophecies regarding "every knee shall ow" "every tongue shall confess" "God will draw all men to Him" are all things that were finished in Christ's work on the cross, and the consummation of that kingdom when Israel was removed as a covenant people.

The difference between me and the average Calvinist, is that I am a Full Preterist. I believe all things have been put in place, all prophetic word has ceased with the consummation of the kingdom here on earth. Perpetual fulfillments are no more. Dual fulfillments do not exist. There was only one fulfillment of the law, and that was Christ. Christ's work in bringing in the New Heaven and New Earth have already been realized in the church, Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem.

I agree with the five points of Calvinism, so that makes me a Calvinist.
However, I disagreee with all sects and views of futurism that see this reconciliation, or postponed salvation something to transpire inevitably in the future. Those realizations are here now.

And it is up to the church, to plant the seed, so that man, can be regenarated into the faith only through the hand and power of God. This is not prophetic, this is realized. That kingdom, from which the seed grows into the heart of man, has already been realized and developed. That kingdom needs no more work, as it is finished, but it takes the those chosen by God to fulfill His purpose for his people, that elected/special grace for Christians, as God redeems, sanctifies, and glorifies his church. Common Grace is God working in the heart of the sinner to emulate the Christian life but not effectually saving that sinner from his death, for use to glorify Him and fulfill His puposes, as He did with many throughout the scripture that never came to the faith.

The scripture is purely covenantal, and only deals with the church, and the message is to the church, and also to the one who rightly rejects it, even when the fact is in vain for that sinner.
The fact that many who are called through the ministry of the gospel do not come and are not brought to conversion must not be blamed on the gospel, nor on Christ Himself, who is offered through the gospel, nor on God, who calls them through the gospel and even bestows various gifts on them, but on the people themselves who are called. Some in self-assurance do not even entertain the Word of God and everlasting life, yet others do entertain it but do not take it to heart, and for that reason, after that fleeting joy of a temporary faith, they relapse, while others choke the seed of the Word with the thorns of life's cares and with the pleasures of the world and bring forth no fruits whatsoever. This our Savior Jesus Christ teaches in the parable of the sower.

With that being said, yes I am a Calvinist, but a Full Preterist at that, and redemption only lies in the heart of the truly repentant man, who submit Himself to God, and follows His ways and teachings through the guide and counsellor, the Holy Spirit. The man that outright refuses that gospel and truth, in none other than condemend to death, eternally, as the scripture states.
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
sciotamicks - When you proclaim the Gospel to an unbeliever, can you look that person in the eyes and say from your heart?

1. Christ died for your sins
2. Christ was buried, and on the third day He was resurrected to declare you justified before God
3. Believe the Gospel. It is true.

Can you do this?
I do it everyday my friend.
What I don't do, is tell that man, reagrdless of what he decides, inevitably, he will be saved and redeemed after his death.
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:52 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,313,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
So Alabama,

You believe that the spirit, after death, will be reconciled to God whether he believed in Christ during his life or not?

If you answer yes...then your answer is contrary to scripture.
What I've said over and over is that our faith is not the determining factor in our salvation. Christ alone and His work on the cross is the determining factor. As for when the Spirit chooses to reveal salvation and regenerate the soul's of man is entirely up to God. I make no claims as to when it must happen. As a matter of fact, it may very well happen for those who as yet do not believe at the moment of death, similar to an infant, a young child or an adult that never heard the Gospel. The reason I believe this is that I believe in irresistible grace and that because God did reveal that He wills the salvation of all, it does and will happen to all. It is scriptural and it is the message of the Gospel.

Now then, is it your testimony that God did in-fact reprobate a portion of His creation (how ever large or small you want to make it) to everlasting punishment, condemnation and suffering for His own glory? A simple yes or no is all I'm asking for.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Now then, is it your testimony that God did in-fact reprobate a portion of His creation (how ever large or small you want to make it) to everlasting punishment, condemnation and suffering for His own glory? A simple yes or no is all I'm asking for.
Yes....for now...past and present, and most likely for a while in the future....but that isn't for His glory at all, as the scripture never states that those events of punishment are.

But I can't end there you know

Personally Alabama, it sounds like you aren't completely UR, and I am neither completely ET or AN, or whatever people want to label me.

I believe there is a place outside of the third dimension, in this life, that is separated completely from God, forever.

However, I personally believe that His kingdom on earth will continue to increase, and increase and increase, until hopefully, all mankind will be saved and believe in Christ. But I don't believe this to be propehetic, just the work of the church from a kingdom that has already been established.
Whether that be in 50 years, or 10000 years, the scripture says:

Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Because God will perform this, I believe it to be true.

Hope that helps you understand me a little better.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:10 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,313,536 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I do it everyday my friend.
What I don't do, is tell that man, reagrdless of what he decides, inevitably, he will be saved and redeemed after his death.
You don't need to say "he will be saved and redeemed after his death". The Gospel proclaims he was saved and redeemed at the cross and in Christ's resurrection was declared to be righteous by God. All past tense and it all happened 2,000 years ago.

The Gospel message is not something that "we decide" on, as in decisional regeneration. It is a proclamation of truth to be believed and received. This is why I'm so amazed at what you say. You do not actually believe in true Calvinism (which for the most part is scriptural), but rather you cling to a universal Arminianism that does not actually save. Take no offense at this , but this is why I find your doctrines to be very confused.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:16 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,313,536 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Yes....for now...past and present, and most likely for a while in the future....but that isn't for His glory at all, as the scripture never states that those events of punishment are.

But I can't end there you know

Personally Alabama, it sounds like you aren't completely UR, and I am neither completely ET or AN, or whatever people want to label me.

I believe there is a place outside of the third dimension, in this life, that is separated completely from God, forever.

However, I personally believe that His kingdom on earth will continue to increase, and increase and increase, until hopefully, all mankind will be saved and believe in Christ. But I don't believe this to be propehetic, just the work of the church from a kingdom that has already been established.
Whether that be in 50 years, or 10000 years, the scripture says:

Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Because God will perform this, I believe it to be true.

Hope that helps you understand me a little better.
It does, thanks for the understanding my friend .
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
Reputation: 420
Anytime my friend
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:40 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 12,700,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Thanks for the laugh....
You are most welcome.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: US
26,256 posts, read 13,920,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I actually believe you people interpret the scriptures through your preconceived idea of who God is .

Anything that does not fit in with your nicely packaged doctrine is rejected , you place more importance over your doctrine then you do over the nature and character of God and in doing so would rather have our Lord portayed as someone worse than Hitler, if it meant protecting the doctrine you worship.

God does not do what the Hell He wants . "God is love" now go and read in 1 Corinthians 13 how Love manifests itself , if your idea of love does not fit in with the description of love , i would recommend that you drop that idea.
There goes that God is Love mantra, again.........
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:43 AM
 
Location: US
26,256 posts, read 13,920,882 times
Reputation: 1591
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Of course you are mad...you are UR and you are wrong. There is aplace such as eternal death you know..the scripture teaches it...and there is such a place as eteranl life, the scripture teaches that as well, same words, two different places...and there is such a eternal kingdom which is God's...the scripture teaches that, but you, like all URers, pick and choose what you want to accept and what you don't want to accept. Your premise, other than Katonjj, who is closer than all of you and your futurist paradigm of UR, to the truth because she embraced Full Preterism. Embrace Preterism, and your foundation will collapse beneath your feet. In time it will....His work is done. He has already reconciled the world to Him. It is the ministry of Christianity that plants that seed of the gospel, and it is God who regenarates that seed into something that enables His Glory unto Him.

But reject it, and you are dead.....forever. Deal it Alabama Storm, your paradigm is contradictory to the entire word of God, not just the little bits and pieces you choose to support your claims. You must gaze into the whole picture, and rightly divide it, such is what you have failed, as well as others have failed in doing so.
The Greek word for Eternal with respect to Life is forever, however, when it is applied to Punishment it is temporal...Punishment only means to cut, or prune.....regardless of the fact that it means punishment or torment....can't you see the truth here?...
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