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Old 12-09-2009, 04:56 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,315,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
So are you saying, one does not have to repent? It's your lack of understanding the true gospel that puts you in this position. Why even send missionaries. why Go ye there and teach all nations?
Of course you repent. You cannot enter the Kingdom of God without it. Repentance causes us to believe the Gospel. That is the changed mind (renewing of the mind) that is given to us during regeneration by the Spirit. It (repentance) causes us to believe in the Gospel and receive Christ.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,291,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Strawman ... It is our belief that all will repent. Its just that we do not agree that repentance is necessary before someone dies for one to be saved in the end. Repentance now is for the reward of reigning with Christ and having life pertaining to the ages.
Pertaining to the ages......Ironmaw...this is the worst presentation that UR has....it has no foundation whatsoever...leave it alone...it makes you, and your doctrine look foolish.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Strawman ... It is our belief that all will repent. Its just that we do not agree that repentance is necessary before someone dies for one to be saved in the end. Repentance now is for the reward of reigning with Christ and having life pertaining to the ages.
You have no clue about the work on the cross...you defile it by giving the unrighteous carte blanch to enter the kingdom after they pay for their sins in some make believe purgatory state in fire....blasphemy and heresy is what that is. No where in scripture does it teach it..anywhere.....you have to confess it with your mouth, or did you select that part out of the scripture too to support your failed and divided doctrine?

UR stands divided on all fronts and will turn to dust soon enough.
Just wait and see...I will see to it personally here at this forum.

Like Mike, this debate isn't between you and me, it is for people who google this heresy and read what we present here.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:04 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,458,758 times
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Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Of course you repent. You cannot enter the Kingdom of God without it. Repentance causes us to believe the Gospel. That is the changed mind (renewing of the mind) that is given to us during regeneration by the Spirit. It (repentance) causes us to believe in the Gospel and receive Christ.
No no no.....repentance is “to change one’s mind.” change of behavior. That is why John the Baptist called people to “produce fruit in keeping with repentance” It is turning to God. All indicating action.

How can you be regenerated unless you repent first?
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:12 PM
 
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sciotamicks - See a couple of my prior posts where I asked a few questions about your doctrines on justification .

I'm still trying to figure out if guys are just plain high on something (and it ain't Jesus), or if you really know what you're taking about...LOL

And now you want to bring your buddy Mike into this discussion? He's an Arminian for cryin-out-loud. How is that going to help your case?
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
sciotamicks - See a couple of my prior posts where I asked a few questions about your doctrines on justification .

I'm still trying to figure out if guys are just plain high on something (and it ain't Jesus), or if you really know what you're taking about...LOL

And now you want to bring your buddy Mike into this discussion? He's an Arminian for cryin-out-loud. How is that going to help your case?
I am not a Calvinist I hold to many Calvinist doctrines (T.U.L.I.P) yet even I can see the arminians point of view when dealing with free will because it is obviously scriptural. Both sides have a point because they have scripture to back it up. It's a paradox and we leave it at that but you universalist have a huge misunderstanding when you accuse us of work righteousness much so like the Muslims accusing us of worshiping more than one God.
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
No no no.....repentance is “to change one’s mind.” change of behavior. That is why John the Baptist called people to “produce fruit in keeping with repentance” It is turning to God. All indicating action.

How can you be regenerated unless you repent first?
Regeneration of the Spirit brings repentance! It is God who grants repentance to sinners. It is not the work of the sinner to repent:

Act 5:31 This One God has exalted as a Ruler and Savior to His right hand, to give to Israel repentance and remission of sins.

Act 11:18 And hearing these things, they kept silent and glorified God, saying, Then God also has granted to the nations repentance unto life.

Repentance and belief in the Gospel work together through the regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Why do you think Jesus said:

Mar 1:15 and saying, The time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent and believe in the gospel.

The Holy Spirit does not convict the sinner of his sinful nature and works, per se. But rather He convicts the sinner of not believing in Jesus. When the Spirit regenerates the mind, it causes the sinner to repent and believe in the Gospel:

Joh 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is advantageous for you that I should go; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I go, I will send Him to you.
Joh 16:8 And having come, that One will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment.
Joh 16:9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe into Me;
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:38 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,458,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Regeneration of the Spirit brings repentance! It is God who grants repentance to sinners. It is not the work of the sinner to repent:
again you are hung up on work righteousness. I never said repentance is a work that earns salvation but that repentance unto salvation does result in works.

"faith without works is dead". John said, “produce fruit in keeping with repentance”
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am not a Calvinist I hold to many Calvinist doctrines (T.U.L.I.P) yet even I can see the arminians point of view when dealing with free will because it is obviously scriptural. Both sides have a point because they have scripture to back it up. It's a paradox and we leave it at that but you universalist have a huge misunderstanding when you accuse us of work righteousness much so like the Muslims accusing us of worshiping more than one God.
I'm also reformed in my theology. I was a full fledged 5 point hyper-Calvinist for over 25 years! (I was converted as a teen so I'm not that old...LOL )

But today, after much thought, study and deliberation, I believe in Christ's universal salvation for all. And I do so within the context of reformed theology no less, and I have no paradox reconciling the two. It was as if a veil had been lifted from my eyes! The Gospel is wonderful!
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Old 12-09-2009, 05:49 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,315,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
again you are hung up on work righteousness. I never said repentance is a work that earns salvation but that repentance unto salvation does result in works.

"faith without works is dead". John said, “produce fruit in keeping with repentance”
Yes, repentance will always result in good works and the fruit of the Spirit. But like you've indicated, it does not justify us before God, but rather man:

Jas 2:17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works.
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