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Old 01-11-2010, 06:19 PM
 
Location: US
26,439 posts, read 14,028,208 times
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This post must have exhausted itself....
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:15 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,320,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
This post must have exhausted itself....
850 posts! Good grief...We could always gas it up with a scripture or two about universalism, couldn't we...LOL
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:47 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,320,013 times
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Ok Richard, you're not off the hook this easy...LOL

You never did get back to us unies on what happens to the infants that die in birth or shortly there after. We're still waiting for your answer...

Is it: burn-baby-burn, or...? Now remember, you're testifying before Christ and before the angels of those infants who behold God the Father's face...ok

Mat 18:10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in Heaven continually look on the face of My Father in Heaven.

This should gas it up a little... There may yet be life in this thread...LOL
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:38 AM
 
Location: US
26,439 posts, read 14,028,208 times
Reputation: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Ok Richard, you're not off the hook this easy...LOL

You never did get back to us unies on what happens to the infants that die in birth or shortly there after. We're still waiting for your answer...

Is it: burn-baby-burn, or...? Now remember, you're testifying before Christ and before the angels of those infants who behold God the Father's face...ok

Mat 18:10 See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in Heaven continually look on the face of My Father in Heaven.

This should gas it up a little... There may yet be life in this thread...LOL
Well, that verse could be taken to indicate that if these die in infancy that they autamatically go to heaven, however it dies not say that, that is not the point Christ was making, the point He was making is that childeren are impressionable and that anything you would tell them they will believe and that this is the way that you must accept the gospel, without question...He was indicating that a child has real faith in whatever he is told...Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, there is a man in the Moon, ets...But, there is still the requirements for salvation that are in scripture...Belief, Faith and Repentance...
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:39 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,320,013 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Well, that verse could be taken to indicate that if these die in infancy that they autamatically go to heaven, however it dies not say that, that is not the point Christ was making, the point He was making is that childeren are impressionable and that anything you would tell them they will believe and that this is the way that you must accept the gospel, without question...He was indicating that a child has real faith in whatever he is told...Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, there is a man in the Moon, ets...But, there is still the requirements for salvation that are in scripture...Belief, Faith and Repentance...
Let's look at the verse again and see what the point is. The warning is to us, not to the children and what they believe, but rather what we think regarding them. Let's see what it means when we despise infants and small children (little ones):

Mat 18:10 See that you do not despise (Strongs 2706) one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in Heaven continually look on the face of My Father in Heaven.

G2706
καταφρονέω
kataphronéō; contracted kataphronṓ, ***. kataphronḗsō, from katá (G2596), against or denoting evil, and phronéō (G5426), to think. To hold in contempt, to think lightly of, despise.

Quite frankly, it means to think evil against them and to hold them in contempt and despise. Not a good sign for the one doing so, wouldn't you agree ...LOL Jesus said to "see", take head and discern what he was about to say, did he not?

Further more, if any be reprobate (Jesus said we are not to despise even one little one), do the reprobate who perish have angels in heaven that behold the face of Jesus' Father? Are the angels ministering on behalf of reprobates?

Would you explain how infants (lets say a week old) at death, hear the Gospel, believe the Gospel and repent (and exactly what do they repent from)? And if they are incapable or unable to do so, is it your testimony after reading this scripture, that evil and contempt (eternal fire and infinite suffering) await them at death? If we are not to think so, did Jesus think this and does His Father think this?

Is it your testimony before Christ and the angels of these infants, that Jehovah casts infants into hell (for eternal suffering) and is pleased to do so, if they do not hear, believe the Gospel or repent? What about deaf infants? There are many, and they too will often die at birth.

Psa 135:5 For I know that Jehovah is great, and our Lord is above all gods.
Psa 135:6 Every thing which Jehovah was pleased to do, He did, in the heavens and in the earth, and in the seas and all deep places.

And further, if infants have their own angels who behold the face of Jehovah from their birth, do the angels of these infants ever stop doing so when they get older? What about as the infant matures, their teen years and then into adult hood? And where do these angels go when these infants eventually become like you and I, impious ones, ungodly sinners (the ones Jesus said He died for...LOL)? Are the angels only temporary, do they move onto someone else more holy or with less sin? Scripture please....LOL

This is becoming more interesting. To quote you:

"there is still the requirements for salvation that are in scripture...Belief, Faith and Repentance"

The only requirement for salvation is Christ my friend. Christ alone. It is Christ alone that justifies us before God. Not our faith, not our belief and not our repentance. Doesn't any one believe the Gospel anymore, the good news???!!!??? Your a professed Calvinist for crying out loud!!!, are you not...LOL The good news is not what we do, but what Jesus did for us!!! And he did it for infants!!! And yes, we were all once infants!!! All of us!! Good grief Charlie Brown, my blood pressure just went up 50 points...LOL

I told you you're not gettin' off this hook so easy...LOL I can hear you now gettin' on the tap dancing shoes...
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:14 PM
 
702 posts, read 813,685 times
Reputation: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The doctrine of Calvinism baffle me. I find it truly warped IMHO. Perhaps its just me.

This is what Calvinism says:

1. God predestines a man to sin

2. God predestines the man to eternal torture for the sins the man was predestined to do.

And somehow this is justice.

Justice?

Does that make sense to anyone here?
Someone may have already pointed this out, but first of all, there is a lot more to Calvinism than what you bring up here.

Calvin taught (at least in the Institutes) that God's judgment against the sinner is righteous because man incurs that judgment on himself through willful, voluntary disobedience in the face of what he knows to be right. When he sins, he does so with complete willingness and with full consent, so God's judgment is not unjust.
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:55 PM
 
Location: US
26,439 posts, read 14,028,208 times
Reputation: 1604
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
Let's look at the verse again and see what the point is. The warning is to us, not to the children and what they believe, but rather what we think regarding them. Let's see what it means when we despise infants and small children (little ones):

Mat 18:10 See that you do not despise (Strongs 2706) one of these little ones, for I tell you that their angels in Heaven continually look on the face of My Father in Heaven.

G2706
καταφρονέω
kataphronéō; contracted kataphronṓ, ***. kataphronḗsō, from katá (G2596), against or denoting evil, and phronéō (G5426), to think. To hold in contempt, to think lightly of, despise.

Quite frankly, it means to think evil against them and to hold them in contempt and despise. Not a good sign for the one doing so, wouldn't you agree ...LOL Jesus said to "see", take head and discern what he was about to say, did he not?

Further more, if any be reprobate (Jesus said we are not to despise even one little one), do the reprobate who perish have angels in heaven that behold the face of Jesus' Father? Are the angels ministering on behalf of reprobates?

Would you explain how infants (lets say a week old) at death, hear the Gospel, believe the Gospel and repent (and exactly what do they repent from)? And if they are incapable or unable to do so, is it your testimony after reading this scripture, that evil and contempt (eternal fire and infinite suffering) await them at death? If we are not to think so, did Jesus think this and does His Father think this?

Is it your testimony before Christ and the angels of these infants, that Jehovah casts infants into hell (for eternal suffering) and is pleased to do so, if they do not hear, believe the Gospel or repent? What about deaf infants? There are many, and they too will often die at birth.

Psa 135:5 For I know that Jehovah is great, and our Lord is above all gods.
Psa 135:6 Every thing which Jehovah was pleased to do, He did, in the heavens and in the earth, and in the seas and all deep places.

And further, if infants have their own angels who behold the face of Jehovah from their birth, do the angels of these infants ever stop doing so when they get older? What about as the infant matures, their teen years and then into adult hood? And where do these angels go when these infants eventually become like you and I, impious ones, ungodly sinners (the ones Jesus said He died for...LOL)? Are the angels only temporary, do they move onto someone else more holy or with less sin? Scripture please....LOL

This is becoming more interesting. To quote you:

"there is still the requirements for salvation that are in scripture...Belief, Faith and Repentance"

The only requirement for salvation is Christ my friend. Christ alone. It is Christ alone that justifies us before God. Not our faith, not our belief and not our repentance. Doesn't any one believe the Gospel anymore, the good news???!!!??? Your a professed Calvinist for crying out loud!!!, are you not...LOL The good news is not what we do, but what Jesus did for us!!! And he did it for infants!!! And yes, we were all once infants!!! All of us!! Good grief Charlie Brown, my blood pressure just went up 50 points...LOL

I told you you're not gettin' off this hook so easy...LOL I can hear you now gettin' on the tap dancing shoes...
When i used to look down at my little girl as a baby of course i would not wish anything bad on her, even now that she is going to be 12, i don't think that childeren deserve that, deep down i hope you are right, but, i am slow to believe what i hear or read outside of scripture...He did not say that they do go to hell but He did not say that they did not...But we are all born into sin: [SIZE=3][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]1Jn 1:8 if we may say--`we have not sin,' ourselves we lead astray, and the truth is not in us;
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:12 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,320,013 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
When i used to look down at my little girl as a baby of course i would not wish anything bad on her, even now that she is going to be 12, i don't think that childeren deserve that, deep down i hope you are right, but, i am slow to believe what i hear or read outside of scripture...He did not say that they do go to hell but He did not say that they did not...But we are all born into sin: [SIZE=3][SIZE=3]
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]1Jn 1:8 if we may say--`we have not sin,' ourselves we lead astray, and the truth is not in us;
Yes, we do sin, but the glorious message of the Gospel is for us and our little ones, in that Christ died for the sinner, the impious ones, you and me and our little ones. Like you, mine are also grown and yet like David, you and I can know they'll be with Christ for eternity and strictly on the merits of Christ alone:

2Sa 12:22 And he said, While the boy was alive, I fasted and wept. For I said, Who knows? Jehovah may be gracious to me and the boy may stay alive.
2Sa 12:23 And now he has died. Why this, that I should fast? Am I able to bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,335 posts, read 20,071,763 times
Reputation: 2113
Amen Alabama
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